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Old 12-05-2019, 01:03 PM   #3961
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Why doesn't Flair show up on any of the flight search websites as an option for a flight leg, even when separate tickets are selected? A lot of flights orginating out of YVR to Asia are pretty cheap compared to YYC, and if you use Flair to get to YVR, especially when Flair has $138 return flights.
On most search engines, the airlines usually need to be partners or affiliated in some way (codeshares, alliances, etc). This is because if something happens on a leg of your flight, and you miss your connection, the airlines involved are still responsible for getting you there.

If you booked a ticket with say Flair from Calgary to Vancouver, and then Air Canada from Vancouver to Tokyo...

...Air Canada has zero relationship with Flair, so if you miss your connection in Vancouver, Air Canada would have no responsibility for getting you to Tokyo. In their eyes, you booked a flight from Vancouver, not from Calgary.

And the search engines generally don't want to issue a ticket like that, where the airlines have no relationship.

BUT, there is something called 'virtual interlining', where some search engines do issue tickets with itineraries involving airlines that have no relationship with each other.

The most well known search site for developing the technology to do this is Kiwi.com, and they claim to shoulder the responsibility should a connection be missed, and have insurance to get you there.

Occasionally I do see Kayak experimenting with this as well.

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Old 12-05-2019, 01:06 PM   #3962
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Quote:
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On most search engines, the airlines usually need to be partners or affiliated in some way (codeshares, alliances, etc). This is because if something happens on a leg of your flight, and you miss your connection, the airlines involved are still responsible for getting you there.

If you booked a ticket with say Flair from Calgary to Vancouver, and then Air Canada from Vancouver to Tokyo...

...Air Canada has zero relationship with Flair, so if you miss your connection in Vancouver, they would have no responsibility for getting you to Tokyo.

And the search engines generally don't want to issue a ticket like that, where the airlines have no relationship, should something go wrong.

BUT, there is something called virtual interlining, where search engines do combine and issue tickets on itineraries involving airlines that have no relationship with each other.

The most well known is Kiwi.com, and they claim to shoulder the responsibility should a connection be missed, and have insurance to get you there.

Occasionally I do see Kayak experimenting with this as well.

So a follow-up question - if not this, what does "Show Separate Tickets" mean then in the context when you do a search on Google Flights?
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Old 12-05-2019, 01:14 PM   #3963
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So a follow-up question - if not this, what does "Show Separate Tickets" mean then in the context when you do a search on Google Flights?
Ah, this is something different. Sometimes you can find that booking two one way flights is cheaper than a roundtrip ticket.

Most often, when this does happen, it's because a ticket in one of the directions is priced unusually low due to exchange rates, and the weird things airlines sometimes do with airfares.

For example,

Two one way flights on Westjet
-----------------------------------
YYC to Palm Springs - $107 CAD
+
Palm Springs to YYC - $85 USD
= $221 CAD


One roundtrip flight on Westjet
----------------------------------
YYC to Palm Springs and back - $300 CAD


Google Flights is sophisticated enough to be able to monitor for these situations where booking two separate one way flights actually works out to be cheaper than one roundtrip flight. They're somewhat rare, but they do happen. And then Google Flights offers a convenient way for you to book each flight separately. I believe Kayak was actually the first to do this, they called them 'hacker fares' back in the day.

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Old 12-05-2019, 01:18 PM   #3964
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Are those called "hacker fares" on some search engines, or is that different?
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Old 12-05-2019, 01:21 PM   #3965
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Oh, doh! Posted before the refresh.
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Old 12-05-2019, 01:44 PM   #3966
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Oh, doh! Posted before the refresh.
My fault, I added that a few minutes later when it came to mind

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Old 12-05-2019, 02:03 PM   #3967
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Looking for a Family Vacation - preferably to Europe.

My wife and I have two young boys - ages 5 and 6. We want to go Europe for two weeks - some time in the next 6 months. Our schedules are extremely flexible.

We are envisioning some kind of package tour. That fact the we are bringing our boys means I don't want to worry about anything. Just go where I'm told, when I'm told.

Perhaps a European train tour?

Here's my question - does anyone have a good link/resource for package tour deals. Like I said, our schedules are pretty flexible, so if a smokin deal came up that required us to book and leave within two weeks, we'd likely be able to make it happen.

PS. We'd be leaving out of Toronto, if that makes any difference.

Thanks!

Grab a Disney cruise from Dover.
Fly into LGW, stay the night in Crawley, and then Disney has charter buses to Dover. Best vacation with kids ever.
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Old 12-05-2019, 03:11 PM   #3968
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So is Flair vs Air Canada/Westje/etc basically like comparing Public Mobile to Telus? Less service if you ever have an issue but much cheaper prices
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Old 12-06-2019, 04:31 PM   #3969
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So is Flair vs Air Canada/Westje/etc basically like comparing Public Mobile to Telus? Less service if you ever have an issue but much cheaper prices
Airlines like Flair and Swoop are what the industry calls low cost carriers (LCC). I wouldn't say it's a given that you will get worse service from a LCC if you have an issue, although I think it's fair to say that has been the case with Flair.

LCCs tend to be new to the scene, which means growing pains as they attempt to compete with regular airlines. I would say the biggest issue that LCCs generally face in terms of customer service is that when something goes wrong (weather, maintenance, or crew issue causes flight cancellation/delay) they have such a small fleet, with relatively few flights (often just once a day, or even just every 2 days on a given route) that they don't have any options to deal with the problem. And cancelled/delayed flights with no options but to wait it out = very angry people.

Whereas a larger airline usually has more capability to get people where they're trying to go when an issue comes up. Or at least get them there sooner.

And you also need to watch out for the bag fees with LCCs. They usually don't even include carry-on in their prices. Here in Canada, add about $60 roundtrip to Flair and Swoop's roundtrip prices for a more fair comparison against regular airlines.

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Old 12-10-2019, 08:34 AM   #3970
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I also noticed something that seems kind of new-ish - this carrier surcharge fee. It was amounting to about $330 per ticket on some flights I was looking at for AC. I hadn't noticed this before, and definitely not when I had AC tickets to Iceland last summer. Is this only on certain routes or what or is this in anticipation for the compensation rules? I only noticed it because of how inflated the total fare got on flights for 4 people.
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Old 12-10-2019, 09:13 AM   #3971
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I also noticed something that seems kind of new-ish - this carrier surcharge fee. It was amounting to about $330 per ticket on some flights I was looking at for AC. I hadn't noticed this before, and definitely not when I had AC tickets to Iceland last summer. Is this only on certain routes or what or is this in anticipation for the compensation rules? I only noticed it because of how inflated the total fare got on flights for 4 people.
Often times the 'carrier surcharge' is really what airlines call the 'fuel surcharge', which you've probably seen for years. If it's a substantial percentage of the ticket price, that's probably what it is.

Air Canada is famous for their high fuel / carrier surcharges, especially when redeeming a flight on Aeroplan. This way they can claim you are redeeming your points for a 'free flight' but you are still paying high taxes and fees, making it a bad deal.

Airlines can do all kinds of sneaky things with their carrier/fuel surcharges. They can hide them in the base fare, or they can keep them separate. They're not real taxes, or based on any set of defined rules. One airline could have a $300 base fare + $300 taxes/fees for YYC-KEF. Another could have $500 base fare + $100 taxes/fees for the exact same route.

At the end of the day all that matters is the total price, after all taxes and fees.

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Old 12-10-2019, 09:17 AM   #3972
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Perhaps it is stated differently w/ ACs new booking system...which appears to be a disaster

https://globalnews.ca/news/6273125/a...tomer-service/
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Old 12-18-2019, 11:33 PM   #3973
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I am not saying that discount code I got from Air Canada is useless, but...



It actually increased the price of the flight...



Now I see the game they're playing with base fares and carrier surcharges. Is this some way of getting out of having to actualy honour expiring discount codes?
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Old 12-19-2019, 07:33 AM   #3974
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Bunch of criminals.
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Old 12-19-2019, 07:44 AM   #3975
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lol, what effing idiot greenlit the launch of a new reservation system right before the busiest travel period of the year?
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Old 12-19-2019, 08:26 AM   #3976
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I would also be curious to know why that Air Canada discount code increased the Airport Improvement Fee. Assuming it's the exact same flight (before vs after discount code) that fee should have stayed the same. But there is also HST on the second one so might not be the same...
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Old 12-19-2019, 08:32 AM   #3977
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Yeah, I specifically picked the same flights on the AC website with and without my discount code applied. Last summer was kind of a clusterfata for flight problems ala Max8 and AC was probably giving those out like candy.
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Old 12-19-2019, 08:37 AM   #3978
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The candy appears to be worse than worthless.
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Old 12-19-2019, 12:10 PM   #3979
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The candy appears to be worse than worthless.

I kind of figured this would be useless. I was initially angling for something useful like free lounge access or free checked bags, but they refused. What the hell do you do with 15% off base fare when they increase the carrier surcharge and make their base fare $1?
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Old 12-19-2019, 12:47 PM   #3980
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I kind of figured this would be useless. I was initially angling for something useful like free lounge access or free checked bags, but they refused. What the hell do you do with 15% off base fare when they increase the carrier surcharge and make their base fare $1?
Never fly with them again. My wife made the mistake of using a coupon with them once after they had screwed her the previous flight. The proceeded to screw her with the new flight, and she had to drive 6 hours instead, and never did take the flight they bumped her from because after they re-booked she would have missed whatever the point was of the flight in the first place.



So ya, stay off their "discount cycle". It seems more like a way to get you to keep flying with them at no extra cost to them, but by tricking you into thinking you are giving something up by not using it.
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