I've been borderline addicted to this Vietnam series, it's really amazing and I knew virtually nothing about that war before watching the series.
It raises to me an interesting question of what makes a war worth fighting. Vietnam has the reputation of a pointless war fought for the wrong reasons, and you can certainly make a compelling argument in favor of that view. However I've been wondering recently what the difference was between Vietnam and Korea, besides the end result. It seems that both wars were fought to stop Communist expansion, and the results in Korea are pretty staggering. One side of the country is a gulag, the other a modern first world liberal country with a great quality of life. Anyone who fought in Korea can look at that as their legacy, going on 7 decades now of such a contrast between nations when the entire pensinsula could have been a communist hell hole instead of just half. I guess they're slightly different in that the Chinese were directly involved in Korea, and there were more colonialist overtones with the Vietnam conflict, but both wars seem to be pretty close mirror images of each other.
I think where that breaks down though is the concept that one could argue that if they (USA) had just left well enough alone would these places not be in either the exact same or better positions?
I mean, the argument 'spread of Communism' is what it is, but do you see Communism spreading like wildfire? No. Because it only works under certain conditions and circumstances like totalitarian regimes.
So while it was deemed necessary by the limited information and knowledge of leaders of the past it seems pretty clear that it always eventually fails all on its own.
Which would indeed make Vietnam a pointless war.
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One of the reasons Korea is the Forgotten War is because it doesn't fit into any simple narratives. It doesn't fit the narrative of the invincible American post-war military. It also doesn't fit the narrative that superpowers are destined to lose when they meddle in civil conflicts in poor Asian countries.
I'd say the biggest differences are that the pro-Western regime in South Korea was somewhat stronger than its Vietnamese counterpart, and the terrain in Korea was much better suited to conventional warfare. The U.S. also had control of the sea around the peninsula, so it was much harder to reinforce any communist insurgents.
But the fact the U.S. (actually the UN) fought the communists to a standstill in Korea and fostered a viable state in the south shows that it wasn't absolute lunacy for U.S. planners and leaders to believe they could the same in Vietnam. And remember, the U.S./UN would have won Korea outright if McArthur hadn't been an idiot and provoked the Chinese.
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I think where that breaks down though is the concept that one could argue that if they (USA) had just left well enough alone would these places not be in either the exact same or better positions?
I'm guessing 50 million South Koreans would disagree. And the defence of South Korea from the invasion by the North was a United Nations mission.
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Last edited by CliffFletcher; 07-17-2018 at 02:45 PM.
One of the reasons Korea is the Forgotten War is because it doesn't fit into any simple narratives. It doesn't fit the narrative of the invincible American post-war military. It also doesn't fit the narrative that superpowers are destined to lose when they meddle in civil conflicts in poor Asian countries.
I'd say the biggest differences are that the pro-Western regime in South Korea was somewhat stronger than its Vietnamese counterpart, and the terrain in Korea was much better suited to conventional warfare. The U.S. also had control of the sea around the peninsula, so it was much harder to reinforce any communist insurgents.
But the fact the U.S. (actually the UN) fought the communists to a standstill in Korea and fostered a viable state in the south shows that it wasn't absolute lunacy for U.S. planners and leaders to believe they could the same in Vietnam. And remember, the U.S./UN would have won Korea outright if McArthur hadn't been an idiot and provoked the Chinese.
If McArthur would have retired after the Amphib landing and not dared the Chinese to enter the war, his performance in Korea would have put him down as one of the top American General's of all time. Instead he killed his reputation, and acted insanely after he was sacked.
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I think where that breaks down though is the concept that one could argue that if they (USA) had just left well enough alone would these places not be in either the exact same or better positions?
I mean, the argument 'spread of Communism' is what it is, but do you see Communism spreading like wildfire? No. Because it only works under certain conditions and circumstances like totalitarian regimes.
So while it was deemed necessary by the limited information and knowledge of leaders of the past it seems pretty clear that it always eventually fails all on its own.
Which would indeed make Vietnam a pointless war.
I agree, communism usually fails on its own, it's just interesting to go back and look at a conflict before it started with none of the hindsight we enjoy now and try to determine if it would be worthwhile. Saving subjugated people was basically the only justification for WW2 from a Canadian perspective, seeing as how we have never really been under attack that ranks as the best reason Canada has ever had for going to war.
It's unfortunate to say because I respect the sacrifice of our soldiers including my great grandfather who fought in it, but if you really want a pointless war fought for all the wrong reasons look no further than WW1, in my opinion.
Most shows usually take a few episodes and im hooked , suits i am on 3 and its not unenjoyable but nothing to really grab me yet, right now gonna give it season 1 and hope something hooks me in between now and then
May as well pull the pin. If you're not really into it yet, anything past season 3 or so will be unwatchable.
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It's a brilliant show and I suggest you watch it subtitled and not dubbed. I have no idea why it's not more popular as it's superior to Stranger Things. I expect it may be a bit too complex for the average viewer with the time shifting and the fact that a lot of people don't give subtitled/dubbed shows a chance.
Ya, Dark is best watched with subtitles. The dubbed voices are not great. I'm not sure I'd call it Superior to Stranger things either. It's a good enough show.
ST has waaaay better sound though. Dark has this overbearing BWWAAAAWWAAAb BWOOOM thing going on all the time that is mostly inappropriate. Shot of a school? Bwaaaboom. Walking down a a hall? Same. Forest? Same. It gets pretty annoying.
Ya, Dark is best watched with subtitles. The dubbed voices are not great. I'm not sure I'd call it Superior to Stranger things either. It's a good enough show.
ST has waaaay better sound though. Dark has this overbearing BWWAAAAWWAAAb BWOOOM thing going on all the time that is mostly inappropriate. Shot of a school? Bwaaaboom. Walking down a a hall? Same. Forest? Same. It gets pretty annoying.
Dark is much more clever and has more thought put into the story. Stranger Things season one was great but season two while a good watch is not nearly as good. Lots of online comparisons and almost all consider Dark better;
May as well pull the pin. If you're not really into it yet, anything past season 3 or so will be unwatchable.
RE: Suits
This could not be more accurate.
I just watched an actual episode of television where the b plot revolved around a cat kidnapping/ownership lawsuit between two respected lawyers at a serious law firm but it was only a mock trial and yet somehow it was also binding to both parties. If I had not watched the episode myself, I would not believe it existed. I also thought it wasn't bad. Lewis is highly entertaining.
A few that I have liked recently - "Final Space", it is kind of like a Futurama meets Invader Zim, but with more of a Gravity Falls animation style It's a 10 episode mini-series.
"Dark Tourist" is interesting, essentially a guy who goes to different sites that are not very conventionally touristy. The host comes across as a bit overly judgmental about the proprietors of some tour groups, but some of the sites are kind of fascinating, thought there is nothing that I would personally want to visit. Swimming in a crater caused by a nuclear weapons testing doesn't sound appealng.
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A few that I have liked recently - "Final Space", it is kind of like a Futurama meets Invader Zim, but with more of a Gravity Falls animation style It's a 10 episode mini-series.
"Dark Tourist" is interesting, essentially a guy who goes to different sites that are not very conventionally touristy. The host comes across as a bit overly judgmental about the proprietors of some tour groups, but some of the sites are kind of fascinating, thought there is nothing that I would personally want to visit. Swimming in a crater caused by a nuclear weapons testing doesn't sound appealng.
Isn't that so weird the way he does that? He was at that suicide forest in Japan and made those American guys look really bad for having the morbid curiosity to visit there...….while he was visiting it with a full film crew for his own and viewers curiosity.
A few that I have liked recently - "Final Space", it is kind of like a Futurama meets Invader Zim, but with more of a Gravity Falls animation style It's a 10 episode mini-series.
This looks like a fun show but are you sure it's a mini series? The creator mentioned on reddit that season 2 will be coming in 2019.
This looks like a fun show but are you sure it's a mini series? The creator mentioned on reddit that season 2 will be coming in 2019.
Oh, I thought it was just a one-off. It kind of had a whole story and conclusion at the end, so I guess I just labeled it a mini-series, since it really isn’t episodic at all.
I wish we had the Netflix library of the Netherlands though. Ricky and Morty updated as new episodes came out! When is region switching going to be allowed again??
