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Old 11-24-2022, 03:02 PM   #181
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So if I understand that data correctly that would suggest he leans on his 3rd line more than others? Moreso than that he leans on his 4th more than ohters?
...and that would probably make sense, given that I think the Flames top three lines are all still not settled. They have an obvious fourth line right now, but then everything above that is a big mix.

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Old 11-24-2022, 03:05 PM   #182
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Guess the next question is are the lines based on ice time usage or perceived quality?
Would Backlund and Coleman be part of the top six based on ice time or are they the third line based on skill level?
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Old 11-24-2022, 03:07 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
So if I understand that data correctly that would suggest he leans on his 3rd line more than others? Moreso than that he leans on his 4th more than ohters?
Yeah third and fourth by basically equal amounts which leaves the top six on the ice less

Chart I whipped up ...

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Old 11-24-2022, 03:12 PM   #184
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Guess the next question is are the lines based on ice time usage or perceived quality?
Would Backlund and Coleman be part of the top six based on ice time or are they the third line based on skill level?
I hate altering data ... i.e. taking knowledge of the Flames and moving them around to fit what I think the deployment is, while leaving the rest of the league as a sort.

So I left the players in order of ice time from 1-12

So for example Ruzicka's first game at 5 minutes has him in the bottom three for now ... will change with a few more games though (assuming he doesn't get demoted).

It does paint out the the team's top eight as getting tight ice time, but a level above the rest.


1 Jonathan Huberdeau 13.0

Gap

2 Nazem Kadri 12.6
3 Mikael Backlund 12.5
4 Blake Coleman 12.5

Gap

5 Elias Lindholm 12.2
6 Andrew Mangiapane 12.0
7 Tyler Toffoli 11.8
8 Dillon Dube 11.7

Gap

9 Trevor Lewis 11.4
10 Milan Lucic 10.8
11 Adam Ruzicka 10.6
12 Brett Ritchie 9.7
13 Kevin Rooney 8.4
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Old 11-24-2022, 03:16 PM   #185
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Yeah third and fourth by basically equal amounts which leaves the top six on the ice less



Chart I whipped up ...



Do the Oilers next. That would be illuminating.

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Old 11-24-2022, 03:28 PM   #186
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Old 11-24-2022, 03:41 PM   #187
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I haven't seen a cliff that steep since I visited Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump.
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Old 11-24-2022, 03:47 PM   #188
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Old 11-24-2022, 04:04 PM   #189
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Maybe they should try swapping Mangiapane and Coleman. Kadri and Mangiapane seems to have no chemistry and Kadri loves to carry the puck in with tunnel vision and shoot. You can have some speedy guys crashing the net to clean up the rebounds.

Backlund likes to carry it in and Huberdeau loves to set guys up, the problem is he is setting up stone hands Coleman, maybe a better shooter helps finish those chances.

Huberdeau - Backlund - Mangiapane
Ruzicka - Lindholm - Toffoli
Dube - Kadri - Coleman
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Old 11-24-2022, 04:10 PM   #190
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Backlund likes to carry it in and Huberdeau loves to set guys up, the problem is he is setting up stone hands Coleman, maybe a better shooter helps finish those chances.

Huberdeau - Backlund - Mangiapane
Ruzicka - Lindholm - Toffoli
Dube - Kadri - Coleman
Off the top of my head I can't recall many (any?) instances in which Coleman has missed on glorious Huberdeau setups. Maybe I am misremembering, but I am not sure Coleman is the problem. To me it still looks like Huberdeau is not yet completely comfortable.

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Old 11-24-2022, 04:16 PM   #191
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Off the top of my head I can't recall many (any?) instances in which Coleman has missed on glorious Huberdeau setups. Maybe I am misremembering, but I am not sure Coleman is the problem. To me it still looks like Huberdeau is not yet completely comfortable.

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Coleman misses the net a lot and has missed a few in close chances by missing the net.
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Old 11-24-2022, 04:40 PM   #192
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Off the top of my head I can't recall many (any?) instances in which Coleman has missed on glorious Huberdeau setups. Maybe I am misremembering, but I am not sure Coleman is the problem. To me it still looks like Huberdeau is not yet completely comfortable.

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Huberdeau and Coleman had a 2 on 1 yesterday (I think it was the third period, maybe late 2nd) and Coleman whiffed on it once the pass came across. Not to pile on Coleman cause these things happen, and he's a great forechecker and doesn't cheat you for effort but between the two of those guys.. I would absolutely say that Coleman is the problem in terms of providing offence.

I know Steinberg especially is a huge supporter of Huberdeau playing with Backlund and Coleman but I'm not at all in love with the fit. Huby will stay above water in terms of Corsi and other advanced stats playing with those guys perhaps, but I wish he was playing with more offensive players and I'm hoping to see that happen soon now that he's finding his confidence in the new system (admittedly it's probably helped playing with Backlund and Coleman to help him settle into the system).

But I think what's most important is that High danger chances are hard to come by for this Flames team this year and whether its a call up like Zary, Pelletier, or Phillips, or a trade for someone like Duclair.. I think getting Huberdeau into the top 6 with more skilled players will be key to sparking the offence down the stretch. I was against bringing up a Wrangler player a few weeks ago because I didn't see enough from anyone during training camp, but after seeing Ruzicka and Gilbert give the team a bit of a bump I'm totally supportive of giving one of the young guys a shot to see if there's some extra offence to be found, and though unlikely right out of the gate, I hope they get an opportunity to play with Huberdeau.
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Old 11-24-2022, 04:47 PM   #193
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Huberdeau also was a PPG in October and November last season but took off with 4–5-point outings a lot from December onwards.

I think he needs one of those 3-4-point games, and he will take off, but it won't come with Coleman on the other wing.
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Old 11-24-2022, 05:16 PM   #194
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Huberdeau and Coleman had a 2 on 1 yesterday (I think it was the third period, maybe late 2nd) and Coleman whiffed on it once the pass came across...
Now that you mention it, I do recall that play, but it wasn't a clean break, and I am pretty sure it was deflected away before Coleman got his stick on it.


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Old 11-24-2022, 09:12 PM   #195
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No Ben Jones for the Wranglers tonight
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Old 11-24-2022, 09:15 PM   #196
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...and that would probably make sense, given that I think the Flames top three lines are all still not settled. They have an obvious fourth line right now, but then everything above that is a big mix.

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Problem is who are our top 6 forwards based on actual 2022/23 performance?

Kadri, Lindholm ………………
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Old 11-24-2022, 09:17 PM   #197
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Huberdeau also was a PPG in October and November last season but took off with 4–5-point outings a lot from December onwards.

I think he needs one of those 3-4-point games, and he will take off, but it won't come with Coleman on the other wing.
For him to get 4 points the flames have to score at least 4 goals. I think that’s where your plan falls apart.
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Old 11-24-2022, 09:20 PM   #198
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For him to get 4 points the flames have to score at least 4 goals. I think that’s where your plan falls apart.
Yeah, they've only done that 7 times in their first 19 games. Obviously they will never score four in a game again.
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Old 11-24-2022, 09:22 PM   #199
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No Ben Jones for the Wranglers tonight
Rooney replacement?
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Old 11-24-2022, 11:48 PM   #200
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