Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 10-04-2022, 09:34 AM   #61
Erick Estrada
Franchise Player
 
Erick Estrada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
Exp:
Default

I would imagine size was probably the biggest factor that led to them taking Stromgren over Stankoven.
Erick Estrada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2022, 09:51 AM   #62
Wastedyouth
Truculent!
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Exp:
Default

The last couple Flames drafts have been incredibly bad.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poe969 View Post
It's the Law of E=NG. If there was an Edmonton on Mars, it would stink like Uranus.
Wastedyouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2022, 10:17 AM   #63
SuperMatt18
Franchise Player
 
SuperMatt18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

Stromgren's production in his draft year was actually really good, and with his size and skill profile I see what the Flames liked.

Lots of fans were clamoring for Stankoven who looked like he had first round talent, so it stings but I don't think this was the case where the Flames took a big guy just because he was big. Stromgren looked big and skilled in that draft year, and he was playing where as Stankoven didn't play at all that season because of COVID.

I would have preferred Stankoven too, but I think this is where teams overthink it and could see why they wouldn't want to take another smaller forward after taking Coronato with the first round pick.

I also wouldn't be that worried about the production just yet. He's still very young for the SHL which is an older league now than it was ever been and it's not easy to crack a lineup as a guy who only just turned 19 in July (Stromgren was young for his draft year).

There are only about 20 guys that are 20 or under playing a full time role in the SHL this year so far. With the leading scorers having 4 points, and only 9 guys having a point at all.

So not a league he's going to put up huge numbers in.
SuperMatt18 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
Old 10-04-2022, 10:34 AM   #64
Jiri Hrdina
Franchise Player
 
Jiri Hrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wastedyouth View Post
The last couple Flames drafts have been incredibly bad.
How are you judging this?
Jiri Hrdina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2022, 10:36 AM   #65
Jiri Hrdina
Franchise Player
 
Jiri Hrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Exp:
Default

I will preface this by saying that I think Stankoven is a good prospect.

But he also hasn't proven he can be an NHLer.
The underlying premise is that there continues to be a bias against smaller players in the NHL, such that you can get good draft value by drafting those guys earlier. And there may be. The shining example of this is Alex Debrincant, drafted in a similar spot as Stankoven.

But there are also very few players like him in the NHL.

Stankoven has a lot to like as a prospect, but will still need to buck the trend to make the NHL or be an impact player.
Jiri Hrdina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2022, 11:25 AM   #66
Wastedyouth
Truculent!
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
How are you judging this?
The production levels of the players drafted since 2018.

Outside of Coronato and Wolf the team hasn't hit on a single player that has star potential.

And especially in the last two drafts they have drafted for size and character.

Similar drafting attributes to the last time Sutter was in the Org, and those years led to a dearth of talent in the system.

Their system is ranked low for a reason.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poe969 View Post
It's the Law of E=NG. If there was an Edmonton on Mars, it would stink like Uranus.
Wastedyouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2022, 11:48 AM   #67
Jiri Hrdina
Franchise Player
 
Jiri Hrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wastedyouth View Post
The production levels of the players drafted since 2018.

Outside of Coronato and Wolf the team hasn't hit on a single player that has star potential.

And especially in the last two drafts they have drafted for size and character.

Similar drafting attributes to the last time Sutter was in the Org, and those years led to a dearth of talent in the system.

Their system is ranked low for a reason.
Well you are moving the goal posts. Are you talking about the last 2 drafts or since 2018.

Their system is ranked low because of lack of picks including in the top 2 rounds.
The 2022 draft looks not good because they had no picks in the 1st, and only 3 overall. Really hard to offer any real judgement 3 months later from that.

For the 2021 draft, Coronato looks like a good 1st rounder. Stromgren didn't have a great D+1 season so I'll give you that. The middle rounds have some intrigue, lead by Jack Beck who had a major increase in his production YoY.

I just it's far too early to offer any judgements of the last 2 drafts.

Not sure if you are including 2020 but if you are I would say:
- Zary is tracking nicely despite some injuries
- Yuzentzov is developing along, including a lot of praise in the WJCs. Probably limited upside by high floor
- Poirier is the opposite. Unreal talent but needs to really develop his defense
- Then you have Kerins who has popped.

Again the problem has been lack of picks.

When people say that the last two drafts have been "incredibly bad" it seems like a very knee jerk opinion not based on much.
Jiri Hrdina is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Jiri Hrdina For This Useful Post:
Old 10-04-2022, 02:36 PM   #68
SuperMatt18
Franchise Player
 
SuperMatt18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

Yeah the 2022 draft is bad...but that's just because we had no picks.

2021 is perfectly fine at this point. Coronato still looks great, Stromgren regressed but him playing in the SHL is actually a good step forward even if the points haven't come yet, the rest of that draft is too early to tell but some good progression.

Not taking Stankoven doesn't automatically make the entire draft bad.

2020 actually looks pretty good IMO. Zary, Kuznetsov, Poirier, Kerins all have potential.

2019 as well. Pelletier and Wolf had amazing AHL rookie seasons and look like they could both be NHL contributors.
SuperMatt18 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
Old 10-06-2022, 10:13 PM   #69
Samonadreau
Franchise Player
 
Samonadreau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Paradise
Exp:
Default

We need better European Scouts.

Outside of Kylington, when was the last European League pick that panned out or even looked promising?

Singling out Kylington because he was a top 10 forecasted player before that draft season.

Last edited by Samonadreau; 10-07-2022 at 01:52 AM.
Samonadreau is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2022, 12:27 AM   #70
Sandman
#1 Goaltender
 
Sandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

I watched Stromgren pretty closely in the U-18’s, and he was a fantastic blend of size, skating, and stickhandling. It’s not over the moon that he was picked where he was, or the fact that he was picked over Stankoven. Some analysts had him going in the late first at various points in his draft year.
Sandman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sandman For This Useful Post:
Old 10-07-2022, 06:54 AM   #71
Zoller
Scoring Winger
 
Zoller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Exp:
Default

At least he's getting into games. Can't say the same about Topi Ronni in Liiga.
Zoller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2022, 10:11 AM   #72
Jiri Hrdina
Franchise Player
 
Jiri Hrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samonadreau View Post
We need better European Scouts.

Outside of Kylington, when was the last European League pick that panned out or even looked promising?

Singling out Kylington because he was a top 10 forecasted player before that draft season.
It's hard to judge because they haven't drafted many.
In the last number of years:
Topi Ronni: Way too early
William Stromgren
Daniiil Chechelev: 2020 goalie, 4th round, progression has been good
Ilya Nikolaev: 2019, 3rd round. Progression has been solid
Lucas Feurk: 2019 4th round

It's just hard to make such a blunt judgement when there are so few picks made out of Europe.
Jiri Hrdina is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jiri Hrdina For This Useful Post:
Old 10-07-2022, 08:54 PM   #73
Samonadreau
Franchise Player
 
Samonadreau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Paradise
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
It's hard to judge because they haven't drafted many.
In the last number of years:
Topi Ronni: Way too early
William Stromgren
Daniiil Chechelev: 2020 goalie, 4th round, progression has been good
Ilya Nikolaev: 2019, 3rd round. Progression has been solid
Lucas Feurk: 2019 4th round

It's just hard to make such a blunt judgement when there are so few picks made out of Europe.
Fair enough.

Last edited by Samonadreau; 10-07-2022 at 10:04 PM.
Samonadreau is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2022, 01:45 AM   #74
Sandman
#1 Goaltender
 
Sandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

1 point in 8 SHL games.
Sandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2022, 08:28 AM   #75
Flamesfan05
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Dallas
Exp:
Default

Spin all you want but all indications show this dude is a bust
Flamesfan05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2022, 10:25 AM   #76
Freeway
Franchise Player
 
Freeway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoller View Post
At least he's getting into games. Can't say the same about Topi Ronni in Liiga.

Ronni was injured and now he's sick.
__________________
PHWA Member // Managing Editor @ FlamesNation // Flames Talk on Sportsnet 960 The Fan // other mystery writing projects // Twitter // I can't believe I'm getting paid for this.
Freeway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2022, 12:07 AM   #77
DropIt
Franchise Player
 
DropIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Red Deer, AB
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamesfan05 View Post
Spin all you want but all indications show this dude is a bust
The kid is 19 years old...
DropIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2022, 10:44 AM   #78
PeteMoss
Franchise Player
 
PeteMoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
Well you are moving the goal posts. Are you talking about the last 2 drafts or since 2018.

Their system is ranked low because of lack of picks including in the top 2 rounds.
The 2022 draft looks not good because they had no picks in the 1st, and only 3 overall. Really hard to offer any real judgement 3 months later from that.

For the 2021 draft, Coronato looks like a good 1st rounder. Stromgren didn't have a great D+1 season so I'll give you that. The middle rounds have some intrigue, lead by Jack Beck who had a major increase in his production YoY.

I just it's far too early to offer any judgements of the last 2 drafts.

Not sure if you are including 2020 but if you are I would say:
- Zary is tracking nicely despite some injuries
- Yuzentzov is developing along, including a lot of praise in the WJCs. Probably limited upside by high floor
- Poirier is the opposite. Unreal talent but needs to really develop his defense
- Then you have Kerins who has popped.

Again the problem has been lack of picks.

When people say that the last two drafts have been "incredibly bad" it seems like a very knee jerk opinion not based on much.
That's fine if you are looking at the Flames in a complete vacuum, but you need to compare that to other teams and find where you rank. Every team is going to have low level prospects 2 years after a draft. You need more 'pops' because even the 'pops' are question marks to make it but they at least have a chance vs the other guys who are likely already on the outside looking in.
PeteMoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2022, 04:29 PM   #79
SuperMatt18
Franchise Player
 
SuperMatt18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss View Post
That's fine if you are looking at the Flames in a complete vacuum, but you need to compare that to other teams and find where you rank. Every team is going to have low level prospects 2 years after a draft. You need more 'pops' because even the 'pops' are question marks to make it but they at least have a chance vs the other guys who are likely already on the outside looking in.
So it's not perfect but Byron Bader has a tool that does exactly this with his model.

Under Treliving (2015-2022: personally don't count 2014 as he had been on the job for like 2 weeks) the Flames rank 4th.

# of NHLers: 5 (Tied 1st)
# of Stars: 2 (Tied 2nd)
Star Success Rate: 4.5% (Tied 2nd)
# of Picks: 44 (Tied 22nd - which is the issue. We don't pick enough)

If you look at our current prospect base though it looks below average (Byron ranks it 19th) because the last couple years we've drafted later, and had few picks.
SuperMatt18 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
Old 10-13-2022, 04:15 PM   #80
PeteMoss
Franchise Player
 
PeteMoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18 View Post
So it's not perfect but Byron Bader has a tool that does exactly this with his model.

Under Treliving (2015-2022: personally don't count 2014 as he had been on the job for like 2 weeks) the Flames rank 4th.

# of NHLers: 5 (Tied 1st)
# of Stars: 2 (Tied 2nd)
Star Success Rate: 4.5% (Tied 2nd)
# of Picks: 44 (Tied 22nd - which is the issue. We don't pick enough)

If you look at our current prospect base though it looks below average (Byron ranks it 19th) because the last couple years we've drafted later, and had few picks.
I don't think there is any doubt that 2015 and 2016 drafts were home runs even if Fox didn't show up. But once you get past those 2 drafts - its not looking great.

2017 is looking like a whiff with Valamaki being waived, you're left with Ruzicka who is still fighting to earn a job.

2018 is probably a complete whiff which is to be expected when you don't pick before the 4th round. Too early to tell on the rest - but a lot of hope rests of goalies (who are voodoo) panning out.
PeteMoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:44 AM.

Calgary Flames
2022-23




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021