Electric vehicle war, is gas soon to be toast?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by photon

Wow, that looks slick! I would totally buy one.

The only downside of PHEVs is you don't get the reduced complexity benefits of an EV, now you have MORE things to break than either an EV or ICE car.

At least its has a fair chance at Toyota reliability so if I were going to buy a PHEV (which I wouldn't) that'd be the manufacturer I go with.

[photon]

Yeah that's a good point too.

[Hockeyguy15]

I wanted a Rav4 prime, but you can't get them here.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Dumb question that I'm too tired to use my brain on...how does the cold shake things out cost wise? Are you getting fewer miles per kWh and still paying to charge the entire capacity? Or is it just harder to utilize all of the energy in the battery, but it doesn't necessarily get depleted?

I think to my older iphones on the ski hill - they'd power themselves off in the cold but still have like 50% battery when I powered them on again indoors...

Looks like a 25% range reduction for me during the recent cold snap, closer to a 15% range reduction now at the milder temperatures compared to the 20C fall. It's purely just fewer miles per kWh and so the cost goes up.

Using my electricity bill and not considering the current $50 rebate, I'm paying about 19 cents/kwh all in, so a full 77 kwh charge (about 400 km) is about $15, or 3.75c/km. Dropping my range down to 300 km due to winter makes it 5c/km.

In my old Toyota Matrix, I got about 450km on 40L, or 13c/km assuming $1.50/L and this is a very efficient and small car.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The new Prius looks pretty good and is available as a PHEV.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...prius-preview/

The bump in HP should make it fun to drive. I think the Prime gets close to 220 when you add in the battery.

[Hemi-Cuda]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/commen...is_dead_tesla/

I think we're going to hear a lot more stories like this once more Teslas approach and exceed the 10 year age mark

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/commen...is_dead_tesla/

I think we're going to hear a lot more stories like this once more Teslas approach and exceed the 10 year age mark

Really disagree if you're talking about frequency because of build quality, but agree if you mean where Tesla wants billions for repair work only they can do


The real issue is right to repair. If only Tesla can fix a Tesla, what's stopping them from jacking up the after warranty prices?

[photon]

Yeah if I was buying an EV I'd probably plan to not own it past its warranty period until there's alternatives to the dealerships for post warranty to repair.

[DoubleK]

Does Right to Repair apply to EVs?

That Reddit thread seemed to imply it didn't.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Does Right to Repair apply to EVs?

That Reddit thread seemed to imply it didn't.

I think it's only voluntary in Canada anyways but there's little legislative relief for a guy who owns a broken car that no one but the manufacturer knows how to fix even if all the parts are available to the consumer

[CASe333]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Looks like a 25% range reduction for me during the recent cold snap, closer to a 15% range reduction now at the milder temperatures compared to the 20C fall. It's purely just fewer miles per kWh and so the cost goes up.

Using my electricity bill and not considering the current $50 rebate, I'm paying about 19 cents/kwh all in, so a full 77 kwh charge (about 400 km) is about $15, or 3.75c/km. Dropping my range down to 300 km due to winter makes it 5c/km.

In my old Toyota Matrix, I got about 450km on 40L, or 13c/km assuming $1.50/L and this is a very efficient and small car.

Yeah I get about 20% range reduction as soon as I start heated climate/seats but since its already so cheap and convenient to recharge at home it never compares to any ICE or PHEV equivalent. I also got 20% range increase over the summer without AC. Bonus when your car is plugged in you aren't affecting its range at all so by turning on heated seats and climate ahead of time to pre-departure.

It is important to remember as Canadien EV owners:

Its not as efficient to charge at temps -0C. It costs more to charge at -0C then it does to charge at 10C from an electrical point of view. At fast chargers you won't be able to charge fast unless your battery heater preconditions ahead of time.
Regen braking isn't as efficient when the battery is below 5C. It doesn't matter what EV, if you want regen braking to be efficient below a certain temperature then the EV is warming the battery.

Canada fast charging is by time and not kw delivered. Its crazy this still hasn't been fixed especially considering most EVs struggle at fast charging in the cold.

I do love my EV but if I lived in Calgary I wouldn't buy one if I didn't have a garage.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by CASe333

Yeah I get about 20% range reduction as soon as I start heated climate/seats but since its already so cheap and convenient to recharge at home it never compares to any ICE or PHEV equivalent. I also got 20% range increase over the summer without AC. Bonus when your car is plugged in you aren't affecting its range at all so by turning on heated seats and climate ahead of time to pre-departure.

It is important to remember as Canadien EV owners:

Its not as efficient to charge at temps -0C. It costs more to charge at -0C then it does to charge at 10C from an electrical point of view. At fast chargers you won't be able to charge fast unless your battery heater preconditions ahead of time.
Regen braking isn't as efficient when the battery is below 5C. It doesn't matter what EV, if you want regen braking to be efficient below a certain temperature then the EV is warming the battery.

Canada fast charging is by time and not kw delivered. Its crazy this still hasn't been fixed especially considering most EVs struggle at fast charging in the cold.

I do love my EV but if I lived in Calgary I wouldn't buy one if I didn't have a garage.

20% range reduction is pretty significant and I never considered that might apply to summer too when running AC. That's an eye opener.

Also the part about not only having a garage but a heated garage is significant. That's a pretty small segment of the population all of a sudden.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

20% range reduction is pretty significant and I never considered that might apply to summer too when running AC. That's an eye opener.

Also the part about not only having a garage but a heated garage is significant. That's a pretty small segment of the population all of a sudden.

You don't need a heated garage, because once charging it can use electricity to keep everything properly conditioned for charging.

The 20% range loss for AC is a new one, but I think that was for early Model 3's without the heat pump?

[Enoch Root]

I never got anywhere near a 20% range drop with AC on. In fact, I never noticed an appreciable difference at all.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Also the part about not only having a garage but a heated garage is significant. That's a pretty small segment of the population all of a sudden.

My unheated and uninsulated garage is regularly up to 10C warmer than it is outside during the winter. That makes a big difference already.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by peter12

We bought the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and it is amazing. I would never go back to a gasoline car ever.

My wife and I really like the Ioniq, how long was your delivery time/how long did the dealer quote you when you ordered?

[You Need a Thneed]

So I have a potential deal in place to trade in my 2020 Hyundai Ioniq hybrid, 52k km, and get a 2023 Hyundai Kona EV.

Payments would go up $80 biweekly, but I’d save a tank of gas biweekly or more.

Adds three years or payments to the backend though.

The only reason why it’s close to working out is because they are offering me close to what I paid new for the Ioniq as a trade in.

Seems like a decent deal, just a little hesitant to take on more car debt right now.

[8sPOT]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

So I have a potential deal in place to trade in my 2020 Hyundai Ioniq hybrid, 52k km, and get a 2023 Hyundai Kona EV.

Payments would go up $80 biweekly, but I’d save a tank of gas biweekly or more.

Adds three years or payments to the backend though.

The only reason why it’s close to working out is because they are offering me close to what I paid new for the Ioniq as a trade in.

Seems like a decent deal, just a little hesitant to take on more car debt right now.

Hmm that 3rd paragraph is kinda snuck in like its nothing, is it a lease or? If financed thats more than $80 biweekly if adding 3 years. Unless I'm missing something here. Both great cars though so I guess win-win in the end lol

[CASe333]

Originally Posted by CASe333

I also got 20% range increase over the summer without AC.

Originally Posted by Lubicon

20% range reduction is pretty significant and I never considered that might apply to summer too when running AC. That's an eye opener..

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I never got anywhere near a 20% range drop with AC on. In fact, I never noticed an appreciable difference at all.

I should clarify as this was misunderstood and I didn't initially explain what I meant at all; note I said 20% range increase during the summer. What I was trying to say was that during the summer under optimal EV driving conditions (ie. city driving) with no AC I was getting 20% over the expected range. I was getting 580km range on a full charge vs advertised total range of 480km. With AC this would drop 5-8% only when the AC was running and I would usually turn it off after 5min. Highway driving would lower it closer to the expected range too. Driving 90-100km/hr would be close to expected range and driving above 110km/hr drops it below.

That said all of these things are true for an ICE car too. They will be just as inefficient for AC and speeding. The only reason they heat well is they are such a heat loss at all times!

As far as my comment about recommending a garage for new Canadian EV owners with proper winters I would rephrase and say at the very least make sure you have a private dedicated spot that you can always level 1 charge at and then make sure if your commute is over the range you can charge from level 1 overnight charging then you can easily install level 2 charging. So basically have a garage or carport with decent electrical. Also level 1 charging is inefficient in the cold so it does eat away at a bit of the fuel savings.

Here is a good reddit thread from a no good Albertan northerner with an Ioniq 5 (note they have a garage and love their EV from their comments):
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ioniq5/comm...al_winter_day/

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by 8sPOT

Hmm that 3rd paragraph is kinda snuck in like its nothing, is it a lease or? If financed thats more than $80 biweekly if adding 3 years. Unless I'm missing something here. Both great cars though so I guess win-win in the end lol

Financed. So in the short term, my payments would go up $80 biweekly, and then for three years after my current payments would expire, I’d still be paying the new payments.