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Old 11-26-2022, 01:11 PM   #121
iggyloob12
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Lots of overreaction to a team that isn't below 500. Not sure if people yearn for the good old days of cheap and inexperienced coaches and no accountability. If Sutter's shelf-life has expired already, it's a damning indictment of the players on this team. Who is this Jack Adams-calibre replacement who will somehow squeeze more success out of this roster of good-but-not-great players?
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Old 11-26-2022, 01:11 PM   #122
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Well that trophy really helped him coach in that Edmonton series. Yes he had a great regular season last year but the endless appeals to authority get old. Do you think that he’s the reigning Jack Adams trophy matters to the locker room? Many coaches in every sport leagues have gone from a great fit to gone extremely fast. If there is any constant in sports it is that pretty much all coaches have an expiry date. And with Sutter we know it’s true since we have seen it before. Now not saying this is the issue right now since we only get bits and pieces of the locker room through media interviews right now. But the play on ice isn’t exactly inspiring confidence on that front.
Teams, and players, ebb and flow between playing well and not playing well. The Flames are struggling right now, no question. And there are a lot of reasons for that. But Sutter forgetting how to coach isn't one of them.

Coaches can't step on the ice and do it themselves - the players have to perform. And if they don't, there is nothing the coach can do about it.

It isn't Sutter's fault that Markstrom is struggling, for example.

If you want to question some of Sutter's decisions - go ahead. And there is lots to question. But that is not the same thing as (repeatedly) trying to claim the game has passed him by, when it most obviously hasn't (see: JAT)

If you can't see the difference between those things, then I don't know what else to say.
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Old 11-26-2022, 01:12 PM   #123
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Why would we fire a head coach with Stanley Cup pedigree who just won the Jack Adams? He’ll definitely turn this team around this season.

-Also Flames fans, November 2015
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Old 11-26-2022, 01:17 PM   #124
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Why would we fire a head coach with Stanley Cup pedigree who just won the Jack Adams? He’ll definitely turn this team around this season.

-Also Flames fans, November 2015
Darryl is definitely a better coach than Hartley was
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Old 11-26-2022, 01:21 PM   #125
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I don’t think Sutter has forgotten how to coach but there is absolutely a debate if his coaching style (both how he interacts with players and the system he prefers his team to play) carries over to both modern NHL play/players and the roster Trev has constructed for him. I think the easiest thing to blame him for is this over reliance on gritty vets and putting them on lines with his skill players. That plus over reliance on rolling four lines compared to most teams which prioritize the top 2 lines. But I think there is likely some good debate that can be done on analyzing the style of play the team plays and comparing it to other teams around the league.
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Old 11-26-2022, 02:15 PM   #126
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No, not really, the overwhelming message was that they wouldn't skip a beat, and maybe even be better than last season as a clear cut contender.
Yeah, I never heard this even once. Almost everything I read and every fan I talked to expected struggles in the first quarter to third.
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Old 11-26-2022, 02:42 PM   #127
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Why would we fire a head coach with Stanley Cup pedigree who just won the Jack Adams? He’ll definitely turn this team around this season.

-Also Flames fans, November 2015
Hartley was someone that many Flames fans advocated for firing because of his completely unsustainable style of play.

Sutter's systems tend to dominate other teams much more often than not.

Speaking out of your ass, again.
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Old 11-28-2022, 09:29 AM   #128
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Below are the xGF% of forward lines over 20min that have played for the Flames this year.

Mangiapane-Backlund-Lewis - 20.6min 73.3%
Huberdeau-Backlund-Lewis - 24.3min 69.2%
Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli - 87min 58.7%
Lucic-Lindholm-Toffoli - 22.3min 56.3%
Ruzicka-Lindholm-Toffoli – 84.4min 55.8%
Coleman-Backlund-Lewis - 83.5min 54.1%
Huberdeau-Backlund-Coleman - 54.9min 53.3%
Coleman-Dube-Ritchie - 21min 52.6%
Mangiapane-Kadri-Dube - 131.8min 47.8%
Lucic-Rooney-Ritchie – 81.3min 43.7%
Coleman-Kadri-Dube – 20.7min 41.7%
Lucic-Kadri-Mangiapane – 21.1min 29.2%
Mangiapane-Kadri-Huberdeau – 22.2min 26.7%

If you pull that apart further the xGA/60 for Kadri's lines is atrocious and every line he has centered has been below 50% xGF. I think it's a mix of Kadri adjusting defensively to Sutter's system and a lack of good defensive wingers on his line. To me getting a Kadri line above 50% is critical. I'd probably try the below:

Ruzicka-Lindholm-Toffoli
Huberdeau-Kadri-Lewis
Coleman-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Dube-Ritchie
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Old 11-28-2022, 10:13 PM   #129
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Doesn’t help that Dube and Mange are just brutal
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Old 11-28-2022, 11:15 PM   #130
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Below are the xGF% of forward lines over 20min that have played for the Flames this year.

Mangiapane-Backlund-Lewis - 20.6min 73.3%
Huberdeau-Backlund-Lewis - 24.3min 69.2%
Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli - 87min 58.7%
Lucic-Lindholm-Toffoli - 22.3min 56.3%
Ruzicka-Lindholm-Toffoli – 84.4min 55.8%
Coleman-Backlund-Lewis - 83.5min 54.1%
Huberdeau-Backlund-Coleman - 54.9min 53.3%
Coleman-Dube-Ritchie - 21min 52.6%
Mangiapane-Kadri-Dube - 131.8min 47.8%
Lucic-Rooney-Ritchie – 81.3min 43.7%
Coleman-Kadri-Dube – 20.7min 41.7%
Lucic-Kadri-Mangiapane – 21.1min 29.2%
Mangiapane-Kadri-Huberdeau – 22.2min 26.7%

If you pull that apart further the xGA/60 for Kadri's lines is atrocious and every line he has centered has been below 50% xGF. I think it's a mix of Kadri adjusting defensively to Sutter's system and a lack of good defensive wingers on his line. To me getting a Kadri line above 50% is critical. I'd probably try the below:

Ruzicka-Lindholm-Toffoli
Huberdeau-Kadri-Lewis
Coleman-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Dube-Ritchie
Putting Huberdeau with Lewis is a freaking crime against hockey.
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Old 11-28-2022, 11:27 PM   #131
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It is weird how more often then not Lewis is at the top of the xGf and Kadri near the bottom.
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Old 11-28-2022, 11:33 PM   #132
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We are 24th in getting shots in the slot thaf should tell us why xGF Corsi all look good but we can't score. We aren't going to the slot and tough areas to score goals especially Mangiapane.

A bunch of shots from the outside. You can't make those skill plays and get into the tough areas playing pluggers on every line. We need more chances inside, we did it last year but Dallas made it difficult on us wonder if someone of that has carried over.
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Old 11-28-2022, 11:48 PM   #133
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will be interesting to see these stats in a month when the Flames have had a more balanced schedule
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Old 01-05-2023, 12:25 PM   #134
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Bumping this because, well….

I just can’t get over Lucic playing with Huberdeau and Kadri. Is this Darryl silent protesting to Tre to get another forward? There was “no room” for Phillips in the top 6 during his 10 days in the league, but all on the sudden Mang is down on the third line and Lucic is on the second line? I seriously think Darryl Sutter does not know how to win in todays NHL, no other team in the league is intentionally going with a slower and less skilled line up.
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Old 01-05-2023, 12:31 PM   #135
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Bumping this because, well….

I just can’t get over Lucic playing with Huberdeau and Kadri. Is this Darryl silent protesting to Tre to get another forward? There was “no room” for Phillips in the top 6 during his 10 days in the league, but all on the sudden Mang is down on the third line and Lucic is on the second line? I seriously think Darryl Sutter does not know how to win in todays NHL, no other team in the league is intentionally going with a slower and less skilled line up.
Icarumba.
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Old 01-05-2023, 12:35 PM   #136
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Bumping this because, well….

I just can’t get over Lucic playing with Huberdeau and Kadri. Is this Darryl silent protesting to Tre to get another forward? There was “no room” for Phillips in the top 6 during his 10 days in the league, but all on the sudden Mang is down on the third line and Lucic is on the second line? I seriously think Darryl Sutter does not know how to win in todays NHL, no other team in the league is intentionally going with a slower and less skilled line up.
Isn't the record 5-2-1 since he put these lines together?

I don't think its a long term solution but they certainly got a bump...the two regulation losses could have easily been wins too.
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