Let's Talk about the Calgary Police Service

[#-3]

[rant]
I will continue to advocate, the worst part of speed limits is the speed limits. that people in this thread are having an active conversation about wearther they should obey the law or obstruct another person on highway perfectly describes the safety issue with speed limits. #1 goal when driving should always be to stay out of others paths to whatever extent possible while maintaining control. Pretty much every speed limit is set to the wrong level for the wrong reasons, and actively serve to contridict and confuse this goal for drivers. What limited enforcement there is regarding traffic laws has nothing to do with the spirit of the law as indicated in its name (the traffic safety act), It is simply in the spirit of doing something to be able say you have done something, heeped in a self perpetuating system where we use the revenue from enforcement to fund to enforcement, so we need continued revenue to continue funding.[/rant]

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by troutman

What bugs me - they set a photo radar trap in a construction zone in the evening when no one is working, and don't enforce #### when most people speed through a construction zone at rush hour.

They also strategically set up construction zones on 95% of city roads, even when there are huge pieces of road with no visible ongoing construction. Just pylons randomly scattered about and an ask to slow down for no discernible reason. If you do find that holy grail of actual construction workers, there’s a >80% chance they’re standing in a group of 5 chit chatting away and having a grand old time.

Construction zones in this city have jumped the shark.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Construction zones in this city have jumped the shark.

They just wanted to make our construction zones as ridiculous as our playground zones.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by #-3

[rant]
I will continue to advocate, the worst part of speed limits is the speed limits. that people in this thread are having an active conversation about wearther they should obey the law or obstruct another person on highway perfectly describes the safety issue with speed limits. #1 goal when driving should always be to stay out of others paths to whatever extent possible while maintaining control. Pretty much every speed limit is set to the wrong level for the wrong reasons, and actively serve to contridict and confuse this goal for drivers. What limited enforcement there is regarding traffic laws has nothing to do with the spirit of the law as indicated in its name (the traffic safety act), It is simply in the spirit of doing something to be able say you have done something, heeped in a self perpetuating system where we use the revenue from enforcement to fund to enforcement, so we need continued revenue to continue funding.[/rant]

Speed limits are pretty close to where they should be once you account for the 10 cushion in enforcement. If you look at BC highway limits which are now set by design speeds for the roads you can seem that in general ours are reasonable.

I’d prefer to see variable limits on the 2 and the 1 so that during busy conditions speed limits would be lowered to reduce the accordion affect and improve through put.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by GGG

Speed limits are pretty close to where they should be once you account for the 10 cushion in enforcement. If you look at BC highway limits which are now set by design speeds for the roads you can seem that in general ours are reasonable.

I’d prefer to see variable limits on the 2 and the 1 so that during busy conditions speed limits would be lowered to reduce the accordion affect and improve through put.

Thats just not true,

If that were true the west end of Stoney north of highway 1 wouldn't be 80.

John Laurie wouldn't be 70.

16th on the east end of town would not be 70 at the last set of lights.

The rest of Stoney would we 110

Deerfoot south of Barlow would be 110

Highway 1 & 2 out of town would be 120.

Crowchild north of the university wouldn't be 80

and I'm just starting with examples.



The problem isn't just that the speed limits are wrong but that they are conceptually wrong, they are a very weak atempt at creating a standard measure for someone being in control of their vehical, weakly enforced, so they are virtually meaningless.

Since we are all beholden to weak subjective enforcement by police, we might was well just let the use a subjective measure too, and punish people for not being in control rather than punishing for crossing some imaginary line that serves only to create tension on roadways.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by #-3

Thats just not true,

If that were true the west end of Stoney north of highway 1 wouldn't be 80.

John Laurie wouldn't be 70.

16th on the east end of town would not be 70 at the last set of lights.

The rest of Stoney would we 110

Deerfoot south of Barlow would be 110

Highway 1 & 2 out of town would be 120.

Crowchild north of the university wouldn't be 80

and I'm just starting with examples.



The problem isn't just that the speed limits are wrong but that they are conceptually wrong, they are a very weak atempt at creating a standard measure for someone being in control of their vehical, weakly enforced, so they are virtually meaningless.

Since we are all beholden to weak subjective enforcement by police, we might was well just let the use a subjective measure too, and punish people for not being in control rather than punishing for crossing some imaginary line that serves only to create tension on roadways.

I was thinking highways with my comment since we were taking about left lane hogs. I believe design speed on 1 and 2 in most sections is 120km (might only be 70MPH in a lot of it) so a 110 speed limit with 10k buffer is pretty reasonable.

For any city freeways you really need variable speed limits if you want to increase to design speed because the safe speed when those are empty and the safe speed when filled with free flowing traffic are two different values

You’d have to take a close look at crowchild as sitelines and on/off ramp design to determine if they are designed for above 80. I don’t think the spacing is there if you compare it to the Stoney Interchanges. John Laurie is those left turns are still allowed with poor sitelines then 70 is appropriate. If those are closed then I’d agree.

Your list though in general works with speed limit +10 = design speedwith obvious exceptions like the Stoney section dropping to 80 and the 16th ave at 70.

Calgary has a weird thing where roads with lights don’t seem to get above 70 very easily and a decided lack of the signal change warning signs. (Anderson being an exception)

Overall people complain far too much about speed limits and speed enforcement. Bad road design from historical practices leads to roads that feel safer to drive one then they are. So instead of mitigating with improvements or calming we use speed enforcement. Not the best method but one that does reduce speeds. But in terms of impact to you life you are probably taking about 20 minutes and $200 per year.

The key change I would make would be to make the speed and traffic enforcement have KPIs based on accident reduction. So each year traffic enforcement would focus on the highest risk areas with a goal of ticketing into improving safety. This way they could experiment with different enforcement strategies and measure results not tickets.

The problem with ticketing not being in control is that usually only occurs prior to the accident. Whereas excessive speed continually reduces reaction time available to respond to such a loss of control.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I should add that it's not taking me 2-3 minutes to perform this overtake. It's more like 20-30 seconds at the most. What happens is that the speeding driver behind me gets annoyed because he has to reduce his speed to 110 for a few seconds while I complete my pass and then safely pull back into the right lane once there is sufficient clearance between me and the slower traffic behind. I'm not trying to be a vigilante traffic cop and prevent him from passing, but I don't think it's reasonable that he should expect me to also violate the posted limits just because he's an impatient speeder.

So what happens when you're driving on a single lane highway? Do you keep your cruise control active if you overtake someone by driving in the oncoming lane, or do you take the more reasonable approach of speeding up a bit to complete your pass and then resume your speed once you move back? The same logic should apply on dual lane highways, the quicker you complete your pass and let others go by unobstructed the safer it is for everyone

[Jiggy]

It's all fun and games for a lot of people on CP. Unless you're coloured you have no idea what it feels like to deal with the police. Let me give you my latest example. A cop stopped me for no reason in beddington last week. I asked him multiple times why I was being stopped, he never answered why, my girlfriend even asked and never received an answer at the time. I gave my registration and insurance info, and still I had to get out of the car and "prove my Innocence"...My gf (who is white and blonde) was asked four times if she was "in any disturbance"... She said no time over time...why did I get stopped? I still don't know... They never told me, and my gf to this day says "This country is f'd up".... Plus my complaint about the officer has gone nowhere.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If you’re talking highway, though, then they’d be fine, since they’d like be under the German speed limit!

The thing is the autobahn limit is not unlimited 24/7. The speed routinely changes as you are driving, you do get some unlimited stretches but you routinely hit sections with anything between 60 and 130kph. Whether it is construction, time of day, or traffic density, the speed limit varies along the road. In my 10 km commute the limit changes around 8 times.

There is photo radar everywhere and it effects your license and insurance. 30 over and you can lose your license for a month. They also have quite a few cameras that nail tailgating.

Even on a 4 lane people pass in the left and slow down traffic, they are better at keeping the lane clear but I've been stuck doing 120 for long stretches in an unlimited zone due to people passing. Notthing better than having to hammer on the binders at 220 when someone decides to make a slow pass.

You have to be alert and drivers in general are much better over here, a lot more courtesy when driving in town, but also they are short with you when you mess up.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

It's all fun and games for a lot of people on CP. Unless you're coloured you have no idea what it feels like to deal with the police. Let me give you my latest example. A cop stopped me for no reason in beddington last week. I asked him multiple times why I was being stopped, he never answered why, my girlfriend even asked and never received an answer at the time. I gave my registration and insurance info, and still I had to get out of the car and "prove my Innocence"...My gf (who is white and blonde) was asked four times if she was "in any disturbance"... She said no time over time...why did I get stopped? I still don't know... They never told me, and my gf to this day says "This country is f'd up".... Plus my complaint about the officer has gone nowhere.

You really need to film these encounters. Before you say a single word, record. You have a serious complaint. What do you mean by prove your innocence"? That must be infuriating. I have a friend who gets pulled over a lot too...code Black man in a Mercedes. Brutal.

[woob]

So CalPuck; Turning a thread into a multi-page driving/passing/speeding discussion. Somewhat related to Police, buuuuut not really.

[Bill Bumface]

WRT German drivers being better than Canadian drivers, part of it is the infrastructure. Canadians learn and practice driving on roads and parking lots with twice as much room between vehicles, and thus never really have to get skilled at handling a vehicle, and precisely understanding it's size and position.

Imagine driving a giant bus in Europe. Most of us that consider ourselves "good" drivers would be reduced to tears I'd suspect.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GGG

I was thinking highways with my comment since we were taking about left lane hogs. I believe design speed on 1 and 2 in most sections is 120km (might only be 70MPH in a lot of it) so a 110 speed limit with 10k buffer is pretty reasonable.

Design speed doesn't mean maximum safe operating speed.

And, while I'm sure speed limits have some relevance to safe operation in normal traffic conditions when you're maintaining only adequate stopping distance from a car ahead of you and need to stay in your lane to avoid effects on other vehicles, when you're the only car on a multi-lane road you have vastly higher margins of safety, and the speed limit becomes highly arbitrary, and even more so for straight sections.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by GGG

I was thinking highways with my comment since we were taking about left lane hogs. I believe design speed on 1 and 2 in most sections is 120km (might only be 70MPH in a lot of it) so a 110 speed limit with 10k buffer is pretty reasonable.

Many highways in the US are at 80 MPH (~129K) and it has no meaningful impact on the safety of the road while the majority of people on those roads drive +/-135KPH. 100 or 110 is just a number we set to make it look like we are setting safety limits, with no consideration what so ever for what an effective speed would actually be.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by #-3

Many highways in the US are at 80 MPH (~129K) and it has no meaningful impact on the safety of the road while the majority of people on those roads drive +/-135KPH. 100 or 110 is just a number we set to make it look like we are setting safety limits, with no consideration what so ever for what an effective speed would actually be.

Many is an interesting word.

A few states (8) have interstates which are posted at 80. Interstates which are fully access controlled. This has a dramatic difference in road safety.

No state has a non-access limited road posted at 80MPH.
No state has a non-access controlled road posted at greater than 70 MPH except Kansas and Texas.

Until you close off the at grade intersections along the 1 and the 2 we exceed the US standards for highway speeds across states.

https://www.iihs.org/topics/speed/speed-limit-laws

Even once that is done the best you could call those roads would be other access limited roads in which only Kansas, Maine, Utah and Texas have posted limits of 75MPH the remaining are 70 (112) or less.

So I agree with what the data from the US shows that US interstates are a special class of road that have minimal in Canada comparable and certainly none in Alberta. The remaining speed limits on our major and minor highways are set comparably with 65 (104) being the rough equivalent of 100 (62.5)

[Mr.Coffee]

The speed limits are too low. Really not going to convince me otherwise. Only thing sort of arguable is maybe in winter they are appropriate but on dry pavement they are ridiculous. Absolutely no reason why they couldn’t all across the board be about 10km/hr higher and I’m not even a speeder really.

[you&me]

The other thing to consider about speed limits is the huge advances in vehicle performance and safety equipment.

There's no reason a road designed & built in the 70s, to mostly accommodate vehicles from the 50s, 60s, and 70s, should still be limited to the same specs today, to accommodate vehicles mostly build in the 00s and on.

The most basic econobox, or even large truck can out brake & out maneuver the highest performing contemporary road cars when most of our main highways were built.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by you&me

The other thing to consider about speed limits is the huge advances in vehicle performance and safety equipment.

There's no reason a road designed & built in the 70s, to mostly accommodate vehicles from the 50s, 60s, and 70s, should still be limited to the same specs today, to accommodate vehicles mostly build in the 00s and on.

The most basic econobox, or even large truck can out brake & out maneuver the highest performing contemporary road cars when most of our main highways were built.

true, but you still have the exact same idiots driving them.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by you&me

The other thing to consider about speed limits is the huge advances in vehicle performance and safety equipment.

There's no reason a road designed & built in the 70s, to mostly accommodate vehicles from the 50s, 60s, and 70s, should still be limited to the same specs today, to accommodate vehicles mostly build in the 00s and on.

The most basic econobox, or even large truck can out brake & out maneuver the highest performing contemporary road cars when most of our main highways were built.

The TAC manual does get updated.

People’s reaction times vs site lines have not changed and traffic density has increased. Society also has a decreased risk tolerance for the acceptable amount of death. All these would prevent speed limits from being raised.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

It's all fun and games for a lot of people on CP. Unless you're coloured you have no idea what it feels like to deal with the police. Let me give you my latest example. A cop stopped me for no reason in beddington last week. I asked him multiple times why I was being stopped, he never answered why, my girlfriend even asked and never received an answer at the time. I gave my registration and insurance info, and still I had to get out of the car and "prove my Innocence"...My gf (who is white and blonde) was asked four times if she was "in any disturbance"... She said no time over time...why did I get stopped? I still don't know... They never told me, and my gf to this day says "This country is f'd up".... Plus my complaint about the officer has gone nowhere.

What year is this?

"There is a Black man with a White Woman she must be in distress!!"

Seriously?