What to do with Huberdeau?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

He was prolific on a line with Barkov, yes. Apparently not so much when paired with any of Florida's other centres (Trochek, Wennberg, Lundell)

Not sure it's fair to just it's all Barkov.

Between 2014 and 2022 he averaged 45 points per 82 games at 5v5, and 2.39 points per 60 at 5v5. Generally that ranks you in the top 30 or so of 5v5 production, and to average that over a 8 year stretch is very very good.

Natural stat trick can only do 3 year WoWY so let's take a look.

2014-2017:

Huberdeau + Barkov: 1572 TOI, 53.1% xGF, 3.24 GF/60
Barkov w/o Huberdeau: 1159 TOI, 51.1% xGF, 2.17 GF/60
Hubderdeau w/o Barkov: 992 TOI, 51.5% xGF, 2.6 GF/60

Both guys benefitted from playing together, Huberdeau faired better away from Barkov than vice versa.

2017-2020

Huberdeau+Barkov: 2089 TOI, 50.4% xGF, 3.45 GF/60
Barkov w/o Huberdeau: 1317 TOI, 47.7% xGF, 2.96 GF/60
Huberdeau w/o Barkov: 1230 TOI, 48.1% xGF, 2.83 GF/60

So again both better together than separate, Huberdeau still strong GF/60 without Barkov.

2020-2022

Huberdeau+Barkov: 293 TOI, 56.52% xGF, 3.69 GF/60
Barkov w/o Huberdeau: 1303 TOI, 58.9% xGF, 3.26 GF/60
Huberdeau w/o Barkov: 1426 TOI, 52.3% xGF, 3.66 GF/60

So the underlying metrics got worse but the production in terms of points and goals actually was still better than Barkov away from Huberdeau and on par with the limited minutes they played together.

In 21-22 his most common linemates were Bennett and Duclair. In 20-21 his most common linemates were Hornqvist and Wennberg.

This hindsight idea that Huberdeau was a bad player in Florida carried by Barkov and Bennett (lol) is just false.

He was a good player that was a top point producer in the league over a 6-8 year stretch. It hasn't worked out here at all for whatever reason but doesn't mean he was bad before.

[MrMike]

Our coaches and GM should be watching every second of Huberdeau tape from last year and trying to completely replicate what was going on. A player doesn’t fall off this type of cliff in one year, it’s the system.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Our coaches and GM should be watching every second of Huberdeau tape from last year and trying to completely replicate what was going on. A player doesn’t fall off this type of cliff in one year, it’s the system.

Huberdeau said it as much himself. The Flames play too slow a brand of hockey. Dump and chase ring around the boards hockey doesn't work in this league. It's the system, not the players.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Huberdeau said it as much himself. The Flames play too slow a brand of hockey. Dump and chase ring around the boards hockey doesn't work in this league. It's the system, not the players.

I am a bit curious how much Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk were playing the system last year vs just kind of going a bit rogue.

The rest of team last year outside of the top line looked like and produced pretty much identical stats to the way the team is playing this year.

The top line last year was the exception to the system and I do wonder how much might have been those guys going "Screw it - contract year". It really does seem like Tkachuk didn't think much of Sutter, his comments about Maurice being "the best coach I've ever played for" were pretty much a tell. Gaudreau hasn't really ever said much about Sutter.

Last year without the top line on the ice at 5v5:

Corsi For: 54.8% xGF%:53.1% GF%: 49.2% Shooting %: 6.33% SV%: .921

This year without Huberdeau:

Corsi For: 56.4% xGF: 54.1% GF%: 51.2% Shooting %: 7.93% SV%: .897

Really it's the top line that somehow bucked the trend of what Sutter's system is doing. Everyone else is high corsi, high shots, no finish, and biggest problem is this year no goaltending either.

[topfiverecords]

Trade him to the Oilers for a player with salary retained and a 3rd. Then they can buy him out while paying our player for four years.

[Phaneuf_Phan]

When we signed Huberdeau long-term I was hoping for at least 3 good seasons to start. Have we even seen 3 good games from him?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

How does that explain his straight up laziness? I haven't seen this crap since James Neal was a Flame. Huberdeau has barely tried all season.

Sutter should just healthy scratch him at this point and tell him to stay home. Don't even come to the rink if you're just going to mail it in. Seriously, I would love to see him scratched for a few games. Maybe that will set him straight.

Even if all of this is true, Sutter will be fired and Huberdeau will remain.
You can't move him & the only answer left will be move the coach, even if it's the wrong answer.
Then he may produce a bit more under a new coach but still won't move the needle to being elite.

He has the team by the balls.
The Flames have never been in such a bad position with a player before.

[gvitaly]

Is coach Q serving a lifetime ban from the NHL?

Also in a trade of Ekblad($7.5M x 3yr) for Andersson($4.55M x 4yr) who says no? Ekblad has been struggling this year without Weegar, while Andersson is having a career year, and is signed to a great deal. Also, Ekblad has had the much better career so far.

Numbers this year:
Andersson 51GP, 7G, 27A, 34P, +6, 18PIM
Ekblad 42GP, 8G, 18A, 26P, -13, 42PIM

[Elkyiv]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

but for the most part he's playing Sutter's system and his skillset just isn't a fit

If this is indeed the case, how is it that no one in the organization saw this coming?! OR let's say the scouts did warn Treliving about this possibility, how is it that no one told Treliving to wait and see how he does in thi system before giving him that contract?

I cannot imagine them simply looking at the point totals and making the trade.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I am a bit curious how much Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk were playing the system last year vs just kind of going a bit rogue.

The rest of team last year outside of the top line looked like and produced pretty much identical stats to the way the team is playing this year.

The top line last year was the exception to the system and I do wonder how much might have been those guys going "Screw it - contract year"

Given the praise Sutter gave Gaudreau and Tkachuk, I think he was pretty happy with how they played. Especially Gaudreau, Sutter raved about him and didn't want to lose him.

There is absolutely nothing stopping him from putting in individual efforts. Watch his Florida highlights, and he would often get bursts of energy to force things to happen. I am sure Sutter would love to see that from him.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Elkyiv

If this is indeed the case, how is it that no one in the organization saw this coming?! OR let's say the scouts did warn Treliving about this possibility, how is it that no one told Treliving to wait and see how he does in thi system before giving him that contract?

I cannot imagine them simply looking at the point totals and making the trade.

Really it's tough to say how well he'd fit until he's here I think.

You watch him in Florida and he looks elite. Then you have the public pressure that "you need to sign these guys for the deal to be good for Calgary, you can't lose them as UFA" and really you don't want to risk him walking for nothing too.

Couple things I do notice when watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOKqL8PvFcg

-The little passing plays into the slot that work for him in Florida just aren't working here.

-The Flames really should be studying the Panthers PP last year and trying to set it up the same way.

-His skating is much quicker and smoother...do wonder if he has been fighting the lower body injury he missed games with all year.

And to me this is the big one:

-The Panthers forwards off the puck (often the center) do a way better job of driving directly to the net on the zone entry. This opens space for Huberdeau. This doesn't happen in Calgary, the off the puck wingers go to the boards to try to recover the dump in, nobody drives the center of the ice and nobody tries to make a play to enter the zone with possession in the middle of the ice. Everything is low risk and against the walls.

(This leads to the odd man rushes against when the defense make a bad play...all forwards are caught below the circles trying to dig out the puck and if a dman makes a poor read it's off to the races the other way, and we don't have the fastest group).

[Classic_Sniper]

For the 100th time, it’s not the system, it’s the player. CP’s continuous crapping on the coach needs to stop. Every here yearned and lamented for an elite coach with a Stanley Cup winning pedigree and you finally got him. Now he’s struggling with a mediocre roster and everyone wants him fire like the others. Here’s an idea, maybe it’s not the coaching! When do people do the fingers start getting pointed at the GM or the players instead?

In regards to Huberdeau himself, the dude’s had 50 games so far to practice tight checking, playoff style hockey and he’s looked every bit as bad as I feared he would. He has the easiest role on the team too, winger, tons of ozone starts, lots of powerplay time, easier matchups and he hasn’t taken advantage of the opportunities he’s been given.

He’s a one dimensional player who looks like a superstar playing shinny style hockey, but when push comes to shove, he’s too soft and can’t elevate his game when it matters. Bill Zito knew it too and off loaded him when he had a chance. One play that absolutely defines his softness is that play in the 3rd where the team needed him to make a gamebreaking play, but instead he gets easily stripped off the puck in the corner again and the puck goes the other way.

[Yobbo]

Most people were, please sign this guy before the season starts. When he did sign people were over the moon. No one could see this happening, and now unfortunately unless something miraculous happens we may be stuck with quite possibly the worst contract in the NHL. It's just Flames luck. We aren't allowed to have nice things.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

One play that absolutely defines his softness is that play in the 3rd where the team needed him to make a gamebreaking play, but instead he gets easily stripped off the puck in the corner again and the puck goes the other way.

In Florida, he would have protected the puck, faked out the other guy, used a burst of speed to get open, and set up a scoring chance. I guess Sutter's system tells players not to do that.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Ownership enforcing the Gio cap were much safer times

Every one around the organization got too emotional in the wake of the Gaudreau shenanigans

Not the time to be handing out the biggest contracts in team history

[Manhattanboy]

He was invisible tonight as usual. I'm about ready to move on from the player.

Cue the thank goodness you are not making the decisions posts.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf_Phan

When we signed Huberdeau long-term I was hoping for at least 3 good seasons to start. Have we even seen 3 good games from him?

I think at the very best, we've still only seen him at 80% of where he was last season. And that was in 2-3 games in December

[CroCop]

Absolute bust. Deserves a spot on Mt Rushmore of Flames disappointments with Neal,Leeman and Brouwer.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I am a bit curious how much Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk were playing the system last year vs just kind of going a bit rogue.

The rest of team last year outside of the top line looked like and produced pretty much identical stats to the way the team is playing this year.

The top line last year was the exception to the system and I do wonder how much might have been those guys going "Screw it - contract year". It really does seem like Tkachuk didn't think much of Sutter, his comments about Maurice being "the best coach I've ever played for" were pretty much a tell. Gaudreau hasn't really ever said much about Sutter.

Last year without the top line on the ice at 5v5:

Corsi For: 54.8% xGF%:53.1% GF%: 49.2% Shooting %: 6.33% SV%: .921

This year without Huberdeau:

Corsi For: 56.4% xGF: 54.1% GF%: 51.2% Shooting %: 7.93% SV%: .897

Really it's the top line that somehow bucked the trend of what Sutter's system is doing. Everyone else is high corsi, high shots, no finish, and biggest problem is this year no goaltending either.

Everyone is way too focused on the “system,” to the point where it’s actually hard to believe. Like, it’s hockey, this isn’t Darryl Sutter playing these guys like a video game. These guys have a certain level of autonomy out there to do what they want to do, to do what they were acquired and paid to do. Darry Sutter of all people would know that since he was a GM once.

Ask yourselves this question, do players even have enough time out there to think about what’s about to occur and what they need to do? The NHL game moves fast and the quick pace at ice level is not for everyone, that’s why guys with poor hockey sense like Nail Yakupov couldn’t cut it in this league. He was fast and dynamic and had a ton of skill, but if you don’t have NHL level instincts, you can’t play the NHL game.

Gaudreau and Tkachuk on the other-hand were on the opposite end of the spectrum. Their natural instincts and ability to read, react and execute quick plays in tight spaces was what allowed them to have so much success last season. Even when they didn’t have the time, that duo had the rare ability to buy time and manufacture space, albeit in different ways. Huberdeau doesn’t own these traits in my opinion, he panics and coughs up pucks when attackers approach and when he needs to buy time, he’s easily out muscled mono e mono.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

For the 100th time, it’s not the system, it’s the player. CP’s continuous crapping on the coach needs to stop. Every here yearned and lamented for an elite coach with a Stanley Cup winning pedigree and you finally got him. Now he’s struggling with a mediocre roster and everyone wants him fire like the others. Here’s an idea, maybe it’s not the coaching! When do people do the fingers start getting pointed at the GM or the players instead?

In regards to Huberdeau himself, the dude’s had 50 games so far to practice tight checking, playoff style hockey and he’s looked every bit as bad as I feared he would. He has the easiest role on the team too, winger, tons of ozone starts, lots of powerplay time, easier matchups and he hasn’t taken advantage of the opportunities he’s been given.

He’s a one dimensional player who looks like a superstar playing shinny style hockey, but when push comes to shove, he’s too soft and can’t elevate his game when it matters. Bill Zito knew it too and off loaded him when he had a chance. One play that absolutely defines his softness is that play in the 3rd where the team needed him to make a gamebreaking play, but instead he gets easily stripped off the puck in the corner again and the puck goes the other way.

I've said it's systems mostly but I never meant it was Sutter's fault. It's just a bad fit for Huberdeau. We all know Sutter has and can win in this league. But the truth probably in the end is that neither is willing/able to change at this point (certainly not Sutter and why would he) but the coach is easier to move that a player who just signed an eight year, 84 million dollar deal.

Unless there is some evil plot twist where Sutter is made the GM in the off season and he will pay heaven and earth to move Huberdeau sinking any rebuild hopes even deeper.