RIP Christopher Hitchens

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Broke out the 1976 Stronachie and the one hitter for Hitchens tonight

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

I find it sad and frightening he left the world without believing in his creator. Pray for mercy on his soul.

I'm pretty sure he believed in the existence of his parents.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

He didn't believe in his parents?

In my defence - it was on the next page.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You cannot claim to be a rational person and claim that you are 100% sure that God exists,

Ring/ring...calling Calgaryborn

[Slava]

Originally Posted by FLAMESRULE

^^ Damn Thor, great post. So much win.

Please, most of what you call "win" here is the same tired tripe about how bad catholicism is. Maybe your issues aren't with the religions themselves but rather the organizations?

As for the part of "win" being the comments about other religions being fine, just not mine, its laughable at best. I told you a few pages ago that I'm mostly agnostic. I really don't have a horse in this race.

I see what you tried to do Thor. You gave me the "you're a cool dude" socratic dialectic approach. Valiant effort. You missed the part where I'm not your intended enemy though; you can talk about how horrible these organizations are and try to back me into an indefensible position to suit your needs to feel right - I couldn't possibly care less.

Like I say I spent hours arguing religion when I went to University. Good times. Entirely useless though. The answer at the end of the day is that we won't know until we die. I have friends of all different faiths, and some very good friends of the religions that you might deride and dislike. They're kind, giving, friendly, non-violent and overall good people. Sorry to disappoint you with this next one; they may have become this type of person because they were told that a god required it of them. They may have gained a positive outlook on life today and the energy to work towards amazing goals and dreams for the betterment of all society because of their belief in a centuries old document filled with half-truths and lies (in some peoples opinions). Why would you work to take that from them? Why not just accept the fact that some peoole arrive at a similar place in worldview as you and leave it at that?

In hopes of steering this back to Hitchens though here is a great piece he wrote about Sen. Craig when he was caughtin the airport sex scandal. I can't recall whether this mentions religion, but its far from the focal point if it does. This to me is why Hitchens should be celebrated. Sure he was an atheist. More than that though he wrote some great pieces on a wide variety of topics. This particular one is funny, informative and entertaining. It shows some of the true genius of a man like Hitchens IMO.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ttle_time.html

He wrote about so much more than religion, its a shame to see his legacy defined by one topic.

[Delthefunky]

Weired I always assumed Thor worshipped Thor.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by T@T

Ring/ring...calling Calgaryborn

I'm using a rational in an ideological sense, not in the common way it's used by many people to indicate common sense. It's impossible to be both a rationalist and fundamentalist Christian.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by Slava

He wrote about so much more than religion, its a shame to see his legacy defined by one topic.

Yet I think one of his most fulfilling purposes in life was trying to "free" people from servitude to a celestial being. It is not a shame that this is his legacy, it is an amazing purpose in my opinion.

It is sad that many just see him "attacking" ordinary people of belief...when he is really trying to attack the logic behind their beliefs and free them from their self inflicted chains that they placed on themselves.

[FLAMESRULE]

Originally Posted by Slava

Please, most of what you call "win" here is the same tired tripe about how bad catholicism is. Maybe your issues aren't with the religions themselves but rather the organizations?

As for the part of "win" being the comments about other religions being fine, just not mine, its laughable at best. I told you a few pages ago that I'm mostly agnostic. I really don't have a horse in this race.

Maybe because this "tripe" is actually true. And you can not separate the religion from the organization since the organization is built on following the "word of god" (or whatever higher power is the focus of attention).

Why would not want to hear religion (or any theory for that matter) picked apart with a rational, logical, and scientific thought process?? Is that not how humanity + society has moved forward??

[Kipperriffic]

Whether you agreed with him on an issue or not, He was a very articulate man and you understood his position clearly. Secondly, in debates, I loved how he never (as far as I know) attacked the opponent personally and stayed on topic.

A level headed man among a swarm of "pundits" and "experts" with their selfish personal agendas

I will miss listening to his perspective whenever something interesting happens in the world.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I'm not trying to take the piss out of you here CB, serious question.

Do you believe Hitchens or any other deceased atheist is in hell now? Do you believe that a good man, loving husband, kind father would burn in hell for not believing in god? But a repentant child abuser or serial rapist gets a hall pass?

Hitchens would get the pass not the priest. IMO

A lawyer, who was a teacher of the law of Moses, posed a question to Jesus. "Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life? Jesus asked him, "How do you read what is written in the law?

The lawyer responded,

"You shall love the Lord your god
with all your heart,
with all your soul,
with all your strength
and with all your mind;
and you shall love your neighbor
as you love yourself

Jesus said, "You have answered correctly. Do this and you shall live.

The man being a lawyer was seeking to define the term "neighbor" and he said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

Jesus replied: "There once was a man traveling from Jerusalem to Jericho and on the way robbers attacked him, took what they could use of his clothing, beat him up and left him for dead. There was a priest who happened to be traveling the same road and when he saw the man, he walked by on the other side of the road. Not much later, a Levite walking on the same road saw the man who had been robbed and kept on going.

A Samaritan was traveling that way, and when he saw the man who had been robbed, his heart was filled with pity. ( Samaritans were considered unclean by the Jews ) He went to the man's aid, dressed his wounds, put him on his donkey and took him to an inn, where he took care of him. The next day he gave the innkeeper two silver coins and said, 'Take care of him and when I come back this way, I will pay you whatever else you spend on him.'"

And Jesus concluded, "In your opinion, which one of these three acted like a neighbor toward the man attacked by robbers?" The lawyer answered, "The one who was kind to the man and treated him with compassion."

Jesus replied, "Go, then and do the same."

New Testament, Book Of Luke, Chapter 10, Verses 25-37

The Samaritan was the one walking int he path of GOD not ones professing to believe in GOD.

[HOZ]

Christopher's brother, Peter Hitchens

In Memoriam, my courageous brother Christopher, 1949-2011

Here’s a thing I will say now without hesitation, unqualified and important. The one word that comes to mind when I think of my brother is ‘courage’. By this I don’t mean the lack of fear which some people have, which enables them to do very dangerous or frightening things because they have no idea what it is to be afraid. I mean a courage which overcomes real fear, while actually experiencing it.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...#ixzz1grkAewx1

[GP_Matt]

For the next 24 hours or so the Munk debates have made Hitchen's debate with Tony Blair available free.
http://munkdebates.com/Hitch

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Thor

Sorry but the misconduct of a few?? The entire world has shown Catholic churches, schools, etc.. as BASTIONS of abuse and misconduct.

This I am not convinced of and I would be very careful to make that claim.

I have only seen one report on a study on this (so not even the study itself), and if the report was correct the study had concluded that the amount of child abuse cases among the catholic organizations was directly proportional to the amount of children in contact with those organizations. This study was from Germany, and it was based on a statistical analysis on the amount of reported child abuse cases. Now obviously this is not a perfect method of studying it, but the people making that study seemed like a well-grounded bunch.

So basically, it seems catholics are on average the same as rest of the surrounding society on average when it comes to child abuse. This fits with my intuition.

Also, as we have seen in numerous cases (like the recent football coach thing), catholics churches and schools are not the only places where issues of child abuse have been brushed aside instead of dealing with them.

This is of course no excuse. The catholic church makes it's living basically on the claim that they make humanity better. It seems they are failing in everything except gathering fortunes.

[troutman]

I have a 48 hour hangover that Hitch would be proud of.

Here are some of his appearances on CBC:

http://www.cbc.ca/books/2011/12/the-...ns-on-cbc.html

Remembering Christopher Hitchens (@ 30 mins)
http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Radio/The_.../ID=2177525425

[Thor]

Johnny Walker Black trout?

[Cheese]

Daniel Dennett memoir
http://richarddawkins.net/articles/6...tchens-memoirs

[troutman]

Tributes:

http://www.dailyhitchens.com/

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/

The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe
Podcast #336 - Dec 24 2011
This week's topics are:
Special Guests: George Hrab and Jamy Ian Swiss
Christopher Hitchens In Memoriam

[Smelly Fred]

This is a good debate between Christopher Hitchens and William Lane Craig

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KBx4vvlbZ8

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Itse

This I am not convinced of and I would be very careful to make that claim.

I have only seen one report on a study on this (so not even the study itself), and if the report was correct the study had concluded that the amount of child abuse cases among the catholic organizations was directly proportional to the amount of children in contact with those organizations. This study was from Germany, and it was based on a statistical analysis on the amount of reported child abuse cases. Now obviously this is not a perfect method of studying it, but the people making that study seemed like a well-grounded bunch.

So basically, it seems catholics are on average the same as rest of the surrounding society on average when it comes to child abuse. This fits with my intuition.

Also, as we have seen in numerous cases (like the recent football coach thing), catholics churches and schools are not the only places where issues of child abuse have been brushed aside instead of dealing with them.

This is of course no excuse. The catholic church makes it's living basically on the claim that they make humanity better. It seems they are failing in everything except gathering fortunes.

The rest of society doesn't cover up child abuse cases; if a plumber touches a kid, he goes to jail. The Church knew about these cases for years and did nothing, citing 'canon law' and other such BS, because 'the priests had confessed their sins'.

Does some otherworldly being exist? possibly. There's stuff that happens all the time that's far too coincidental. Do I need a bunch of weirdos sitting in a palace in Rome to tell me what that being thinks when there's literally no way they have any better idea than I do? #### no.

I went to church on Christmas eve. It was the first time i've been since easter. I noticed that a bunch of the basic rituals had been re-worded and took on a very exclusionary tone. Specifically, there was a line about Jesus' blood being shed for 'us and for many' or something similar. "For many" was what struck me... The Jesus I was raised on didn't come to save a group of people. He came to save EVERYONE. That's what made him Jesus. He was all-inclusive.

If the Church wants to go down a more exclusionary path... that's not how you win hearts and minds. I haven't had much reason to go to church outside of the big two holidays for the past six years, but now I'm good. I'm done. These are not people who are worthy of leading, they don't believe what I believe, and frankly, I'm tired of pretending like the Vatican is an organization that's somehow worthy of respect.