2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

100% chance of picking top 3 though, which will be a pretty good consolation prize in the next two drafts.

Being the worst team in the league is pretty challenging though. Calgary would likely have to get rid of all of Lindholm, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Tanev, Markstrom, and D. Sutter to accomplish that. Even then, the Flames would still be in the running with Detroit, Arizona, Buffalo, Ottawa, the Islanders, and maybe Pittsburgh (if Crosby/Malkin don't get back soon). It's legitimately difficult to tank to last place, and it also relies on a new star player not randomly arising. That's what went "wrong" with our last rebuild. Gaudreau came out of nowhere as a 90 point winger, and the team had to try and build around him. He was good enough initially that he would have derailed any tanking single handedly.

[SuperMatt18]

The team that I keep wondering about a shakeup would be Dallas.

Cup finals in 19-20, struggled in 20-21, and now 1-2 so far this year with a loss to Ottawa yesterday.

I do wonder if you see them and Calgary do something if they get off to a bad start.

Seguin is a name I could see Calgary interested in, and Pavelski, Klingberg, and Pavelski are all UFA after this season.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I don't think there is much disagreement that they should re-build. A lot of folks support that notion. But I just see no sign that they are going to do that. You don't bring in Darryl Sutter at the start of a re-build.
The next pinch point comes at the TDL if the team is out of it. Which they may not be as the old farmer is probably going to squeeze a lot of this group.
The pinch point after that is the summer where key decisions need to be made on several players.

But the real timeline I'm looking at is 2 years - because that's what Sutter has on his contract.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by blankall

Being the worst team in the league is pretty challenging though. Calgary would likely have to get rid of all of Lindholm, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Tanev, Markstrom, and D. Sutter to accomplish that. Even then, the Flames would still be in the running with Detroit, Arizona, Buffalo, Ottawa, the Islanders, and maybe Pittsburgh (if Crosby/Malkin don't get back soon). It's legitimately difficult to tank to last place, and it also relies on a new star player not randomly arising. That's what went "wrong" with our last rebuild. Gaudreau came out of nowhere as a 90 point winger, and the team had to try and build around him. He was good enough initially that he would have derailed any tanking single handedly.

Islanders?

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't really have anything to add except to say that this is laughably naive. While I agree that winning a lottery for a chance to draft a #1 centre is more likely than finding one in round #2, I reject out of hand the notion that this can be "planned for." Teams that end up at the bottom of the NHL standings do so by accident. No team ever has said: "now is the time to jettison our current core and start afresh with a new collection of high draft picks." Teams that rebuild do so out of necessity, not by choice.

Didn't the New York Rangers just do exactly this like 3 years ago, and wrote a note to their fans outlining their plan to trade core members of their team?

[Enoch Root]

A rebuild is not 3 years, it is about 7-10 years

The very first players you draft, in year 1, will only be 24 in year 7. The rest will be less than that.

Detroit has been rebuilding for 5 years already, and have picked: 9, 6, 6, 4 and 6

They are no where NEAR being a competitive team, never mind a cup contender.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't think there is much disagreement that they should re-build. A lot of folks support that notion. But I just see no sign that they are going to do that. You don't bring in Darryl Sutter at the start of a re-build.
The next pinch point comes at the TDL if the team is out of it. Which they may not be as the old farmer is probably going to squeeze a lot of this group.
The pinch point after that is the summer where key decisions need to be made on several players.

But the real timeline I'm looking at is 2 years - because that's what Sutter has on his contract.

For me things shift if they miss the playoffs this year/are out of a playoff spot at deadline.

Even if Darryl is here for two more years (I actually think he may be here longer - because his goal is to win a Cup here), if things don't go well this year? I mean...what are their options to get better/become a contender?

...well, I guess we know the answer - and it's Eichel.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

A rebuild is not 3 years, it is about 7-10 years

The very first players you draft, in year 1, will only be 24 in year 7. The rest will be less than that.

Detroit has been rebuilding for 5 years already, and have picked: 9, 6, 6, 4 and 6

They are no where NEAR being a competitive team, never mind a cup contender.

Rebuilding yes, tanking no. You really tank for 2-3 years, and then you begin building. You won't see the full benefits of the tank right away though. It'd be a process after that for things to play out - but the REAL pain is in those tanking years.

[Brad Marsh]

Not saying I disagree with those thinking that a rebuild might be the best way to go right now. The team clearly doesn't have the elite players (at any position!) needed to be legitimate Stanley Cup contenders. Maybe Tkachuk on the wing?

The problem is that this team is not rebuilding. Instead, they appear to be doing everything they can to make the playoffs (Sutter, Coleman, etc.). It just doesn't seem to be a serious possibility at this stage.

Because of that, they are almost certainly going to be no better, and likely no worse, than a bubble team this year. And unfortunately that means no top 10 draft pick. Same with next year. And that means very little chance of landing one of those high-end prospects. And the cycle continues!! Unless........

If a rebuild is off the table, then I think the next best alternative to status quo is to land Eichel. I don't mind a futures deal at all, plus some bottom-9 depth to balance salaries. Adding Eichel to this top 6 group could change everything, and could open a compete window that extends into the new arena time frame. It would likely give the team a better 5-year run than it's had in the last 32 years.

So if we're down to status quo and see how it goes, or an all-in play for Eichel, I really hope it's Eichel.

[Geeoff]

it would be easy to finish last if the Flames broke up the schedule into 82 separate seasons.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

100% chance of picking top 3 though, which will be a pretty good consolation prize in the next two drafts.

Isn't it top 4?

That is IF you finish at the bottom. And that is much harder to do than it sounds. Especially with ARI and BUF in the mix.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

100% chance of picking top 3 though, which will be a pretty good consolation prize in the next two drafts.

No mix in the odds of finishing dead least...good luck being worse than the Yotes


and its top 4

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Isn't it top 4?

That is IF you finish at the bottom. And that is much harder to do than it sounds. Especially with ARI and BUF in the mix.

If you finish dead last the worst you can draft is 3rd. Only spots 1 and 2 are lottery picks now.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If you finish dead last the worst you can draft is 3rd. Only spots 1 and 2 are lottery picks now.

Okay, didn't know that

still its an incredible feat to finish dead last...and then you have one player

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Okay, didn't know that

still its an incredible feat to finish dead last...and then you have one player

Yeah, definitely agreed - especially when you look at Arizona and Buffalo. It seems as unlikely as catching Tampa and Colorado.

I'd just like the team truly focus in one or the other - being the best, or being the worst. I think there's two definitive options for the team - Eichel, or Bust. It's a super simple look at it, but in my eyes the middle is death.

The mushy middle has proven itself to be utterly useless when it comes to winning the ultimate prize.

[Enoch Root]

Detroit is a sober reminder of how difficult it is. They have drafted:

9 - 6 - 6 - 4 - 6

in the last 5 years. And I don't like their chances of being bottom 2 this year

[Ashasx]

A top 10 pick is still going to be a pretty good consolation prize in the next two drafts.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

A rebuild is not 3 years, it is about 7-10 years

The very first players you draft, in year 1, will only be 24 in year 7. The rest will be less than that.

Detroit has been rebuilding for 5 years already, and have picked: 9, 6, 6, 4 and 6

They are no where NEAR being a competitive team, never mind a cup contender.

Yup.

People look at Chicago/Pittsburgh and say "Look how fast they won!" but even then they were much longer rebuilds than people think.

Chicago had made the playoffs 1 time in the previous 10 seasons before making it in 08-09, and then they won in 09-10. They had been rebuilding for years, just ended up finally being bad enough to get Kane-Toews near the end of that time.

Pittsburgh was a bit of a short rebuild but they got lucky that they won the Crosby lottery, and were able to draft Whitney (5th) Fleury (1st), Malkin (2nd), Crosby (1st) and Staal (2nd)...and even then they didn't win the cup until the 7th year after the rebuild officially started.

Tampa didn't win the cup until 12 years after drafting Stamkos.

If Flames started a tear down right now you'd be looking at 7-10 years before they won anything, and that's if ownership actually remains patient enough to do that.

What likely would happen is what happened in all the Canadian teams rebuilds and after 2-3 years they start to rush it.

[klikitiklik]

Kutcherov going on LTIR again? sounds like Tampa will be getting Eichel if thats the case I bet

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't think there is much disagreement that they should re-build. A lot of folks support that notion. But I just see no sign that they are going to do that. You don't bring in Darryl Sutter at the start of a re-build.
The next pinch point comes at the TDL if the team is out of it. Which they may not be as the old farmer is probably going to squeeze a lot of this group.
The pinch point after that is the summer where key decisions need to be made on several players.

But the real timeline I'm looking at is 2 years - because that's what Sutter has on his contract.

Just because this forum is dominated by complainers doesn't mean "there isn't much disagreement that they should re-build. A lot of folks support that notion." They have a 6-7 guys under 23-24 now and 28-30 isn't old in this league. All teams seem to grab a few vets for the bottom lines. If the top 4 usual suspects play well enough breaking up the core will a little easier. If your going to wait for them to "blow it up" good luck with that.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Detroit is a sober reminder of how difficult it is. They have drafted:

9 - 6 - 6 - 4 - 6

in the last 5 years. And I don't like their chances of being bottom 2 this year

Yep, this is the more likely scenario...the Oilers ridiculous luck has people thinking you just suck and draft 1st overall 4X in a row and hope one hits lol.

Get Eichel, pay however many draft picks it takes because the chances of them being better than Eichel are almost zero