2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sure, as I say, that was his right to say yes or no. But IMO, if Feaster had just gone out, sought deals, and taken the Boston deal to Iggy, he would have still waived.

You have no idea if this is true and is just conjecture at this point.

[DeluxeMoustache]

So getting back to the point that led to the divergence toward the Feaster management of Iginla, the situation is that Gaudreau has, what, a 5 team list now?

He would not be able to choose his specific destination

I don’t expect that he is on the block and I don’t expect that Treliving would consult with him beyond collecting that list, if he was

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So getting back to the point that led to the divergence toward the Feaster management of Iginla, the situation is that Gaudreau has, what, a 5 team list now?

He would not be able to choose his specific destination

I don’t expect that he is on the block and I don’t expect that Treliving would consult with him beyond collecting that list, if he was

Yes, a 5 team "to be traded to" list. Though if a team is not on that list he can obviously waive in which case he's in the same boat as Iggy. Obviously Gaudreau can manipulate the list to even further limit options (by listing teams that don't want or need him, or teams that Calgary wouldn't trade him to). But if he really wants to leave, I see no reason why he would do that.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

No GM is going to lie to its player. That would end his career pretty fast. Good GM's act in good faith.

Ah, his career was over pretty fast

IMO he gave Iggy way too much power...He would have waived for Boston he signed there shortly after. The alternative for Iginla was missing the playoffs AGAIN vs going to a contender. It doesn't matter anyway because both deals were terrible since Feaster wasn't qualified to be a GM in the first place.

Stache is right though, Gaudreau's situation is very different

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

But if he really wants to leave, I see no reason why he would do that.

He would do it to have 100% control of where he can go to. Who wouldn't want that? No team at the bottom of the league will give up assets for a one year (or less) rental.

It also puts extreme pressure on Calgary to perhaps open up the vault with an insane contract offer if the only other option is to lose him for nothing.

Teams have been treating players like it's a business forever. We shouldn't blame players for doing the exact same thing.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

He would do it to have 100% control of where he can go to. Who wouldn't want that? No team at the bottom of the league will give up assets for a one year (or less) rental.

It also puts extreme pressure on Calgary to perhaps open up the vault with an insane contract offer if the only other option is to lose him for nothing.

Teams have been treating players like it's a business forever. We shouldn't blame players for doing the exact same thing.

It's only for a couple months. Then he's a UFA. I expect his list will be teams that may win a cup or help him pad his stats for UFA, plus Philly.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

IMO he gave Iggy way too much power...He would have waived for Boston he signed there shortly after. The alternative for Iginla was missing the playoffs AGAIN vs going to a contender. It doesn't matter anyway because both deals were terrible since Feaster wasn't qualified to be a GM in the first place.

I don't think it was Feaster who gave him the Power, it was the NMC. All Iginla had to do was find out that Pittsburgh would make an offer and essentially say Trade me to Pittsburgh. So that's easily stuff that guys can find out via other players and agents. The trade can't be made until the player waives that clause, and that clause allows a player to pick exactly where he goes.

If we put the hindsight goggles on, at that time Pittsburgh was the top team, had just made deals to add Brendan Morrow, so they would have been the most attractive team for him at that time. It was like choosing to join the 96 Red Wings at the Deadline as opposed to the Avalanche. He would have gone to Boston if Pittsburgh had no interest quite happily. But they did, and he said trade me there. After what he saw in Calgary, the idea of Crosby or Malkin probably was too much to pass up.

Realistically the bad Iginla return likely traces back to the organizational idea that the team is going to the playoffs every year, and after 3 years of missing playoffs with the same aging core, the Flames continued to think a new coach and adding Denis Wideman was and Jiri Hudler was going to suddenly make them competitive. I don't think the timing of the lockout helped either, but the actions to add the two noted above shows the team thought they would keep him, and after failing badly realized they had to deal him.

Hence why what we see going on with the team right now does have a few of the BOHICA's (Bend Over Here it Comes Again) riled up. The behavior seems to mimic that 2012-2013 offseason to pretty closely with a few nuanced differences. We'll see if doing the same thing and expecting a different result ends up per the accepted definition or if it works out this time.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I don't think it was Feaster who gave him the Power, it was the NMC. All Iginla had to do was find out that Pittsburgh would make an offer and essentially say Trade me to Pittsburgh. So that's easily stuff that guys can find out via other players and agents. The trade can't be made until the player waives that clause, and that clause allows a player to pick exactly where he goes.

If we put the hindsight goggles on, at that time Pittsburgh was the top team, had just made deals to add Brendan Morrow, so they would have been the most attractive team for him at that time. It was like choosing to join the 96 Red Wings at the Deadline as opposed to the Avalanche. He would have gone to Boston if Pittsburgh had no interest quite happily. But they did, and he said trade me there. After what he saw in Calgary, the idea of Crosby or Malkin probably was too much to pass up.

Realistically the bad Iginla return likely traces back to the organizational idea that the team is going to the playoffs every year, and after 3 years of missing playoffs with the same aging core, the Flames continued to think a new coach and adding Denis Wideman was and Jiri Hudler was going to suddenly make them competitive. I don't think the timing of the lockout helped either, but the actions to add the two noted above shows the team thought they would keep him, and after failing badly realized they had to deal him.

Hence why what we see going on with the team right now does have a few of the BOHICA's (Bend Over Here it Comes Again) riled up. The behavior seems to mimic that 2012-2013 offseason to pretty closely with a few nuanced differences. We'll see if doing the same thing and expecting a different result ends up per the accepted definition or if it works out this time.

Except Iginla was way older than any of the current core. Player and his agent shouldn't be making trades. Feaster should have said the Pens offer isn't good enough for the organization.

anyway we could go on all day...fact that Feaster will never work as an NHL GM again is good enough for me

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's only for a couple months. Then he's a UFA. I expect his list will be teams that may win a cup or help him pad his stats for UFA, plus Philly.

That would be foolish. It's always better for the player to essentially have full control. He can them waive for what he considers his best situation. Plus, he puts extreme pressure on the Flames to blow him out of the water with an offer he just can't turn down. It's all about leverage, and Johnny would be foolish to decrease his leverage in this situation.

And it may not be just "a couple of months". It could be for the whole year. And I assume he needs to provide the list at the start of the year, or perhaps Calgary needs to request it. It varies.

It's pretty commonplace for players with a short list of teams they can be traded to to put all or most teams on the list who have zero interest in a rental player. Although they may put one team on that they love, which in Johnny's case would presumably be Philly.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Feaster should have said the Pens offer isn't good enough for the organization.

So, getting nothing was good for the organization? Feaster had no leverage here. Pittsburgh was offering a first round pick. He had no choice but to accept it.

[Lanny_McDonald]

What's lost in this inane discussion about Iginla is he went back on his word. Feaster asked him which teams he would accept a deal with, Iginla gave a list, and a deal was struck that the Flames liked. Only after that fact did Iginla change his mind and limit the list of teams to ONE. Feaster, and the Flames, took Iginla at his word and that proved to be worthless. The one that should have looked bad in all of this was Iginla, but with the hero worship and all, that was never a possibility. Feaster will always have that trade hanging around his neck when it was Iginla that shafted the team.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

What's lost in this inane discussion about Iginla is he went back on his word. Feaster asked him which teams he would accept a deal with, Iginla gave a list, and a deal was struck that the Flames liked. Only after that fact did Iginla change his mind and limit the list of teams to ONE. Feaster, and the Flames, took Iginla at his word and that proved to be worthless. The one that should have looked bad in all of this was Iginla, but with the hero worship and all, that was never a possibility. Feaster will always have that trade hanging around his neck when it was Iginla that shafted the team.

Given Iginla' stature within the organization, they gave him full visibility into the trade process. Maybe that was a condition of him waiving, maybe not. It is what they did and assuming that is something Iginla valued, I'd say treating your franchise icon with that respect if fine with me.

The offers were not materially different and for all we know, that is exactly what the organization told Iginla.

What Feaster told the teams he was negotiating with is 100% on him and no one else.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

So, getting nothing was good for the organization? Feaster had no leverage here. Pittsburgh was offering a first round pick. He had no choice but to accept it.

That's the Brian Burke logic.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

What's lost in this inane discussion about Iginla is he went back on his word. Feaster asked him which teams he would accept a deal with, Iginla gave a list, and a deal was struck that the Flames liked. Only after that fact did Iginla change his mind and limit the list of teams to ONE. Feaster, and the Flames, took Iginla at his word and that proved to be worthless. The one that should have looked bad in all of this was Iginla, but with the hero worship and all, that was never a possibility. Feaster will always have that trade hanging around his neck when it was Iginla that shafted the team.

Based on how Feaster operated you are giving him far too much credit here. Iginla gave a list of teams he was interested in but Feaster assumed that meant he was 100% waiving for those teams.

Once again Feaster didn’t interpret the situation properly and it resulted in the organization embarrassing itself. I remember the day after the trade Ken King was on Prime Time Sports and admitted they should have confirmed with Iginla the move to Boston before agreeing to it.

You are giving the moron who was a joke of a GM credit and trying to lay blame on the all time franchise great as screwing the team? You can’t possibly be doing that can you?

[ComixZone]

Trying to blame anything on Iginla is just petty, and to say that man shafted the team in anyway during his time here? I have no time for that. That’s Oilers fan behaviour to dump on ex-players like that.

Dude had a full NMC and could do whatever he wanted.

The crap return is no one’s fault except Feaster and his incompetent stooge of an assistant Weisbrod.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I don't think it was Feaster who gave him the Power, it was the NMC. All Iginla had to do was find out that Pittsburgh would make an offer and essentially say Trade me to Pittsburgh. So that's easily stuff that guys can find out via other players and agents. The trade can't be made until the player waives that clause, and that clause allows a player to pick exactly where he goes.

If we put the hindsight goggles on, at that time Pittsburgh was the top team, had just made deals to add Brendan Morrow, so they would have been the most attractive team for him at that time. It was like choosing to join the 96 Red Wings at the Deadline as opposed to the Avalanche. He would have gone to Boston if Pittsburgh had no interest quite happily. But they did, and he said trade me there. After what he saw in Calgary, the idea of Crosby or Malkin probably was too much to pass up.

Realistically the bad Iginla return likely traces back to the organizational idea that the team is going to the playoffs every year, and after 3 years of missing playoffs with the same aging core, the Flames continued to think a new coach and adding Denis Wideman was and Jiri Hudler was going to suddenly make them competitive. I don't think the timing of the lockout helped either, but the actions to add the two noted above shows the team thought they would keep him, and after failing badly realized they had to deal him.

Hence why what we see going on with the team right now does have a few of the BOHICA's (Bend Over Here it Comes Again) riled up. The behavior seems to mimic that 2012-2013 offseason to pretty closely with a few nuanced differences. We'll see if doing the same thing and expecting a different result ends up per the accepted definition or if it works out this time.

This sounds familiar. At least I'm quite confident we got the coach right.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

That would be foolish. It's always better for the player to essentially have full control. He can them waive for what he considers his best situation. Plus, he puts extreme pressure on the Flames to blow him out of the water with an offer he just can't turn down. It's all about leverage, and Johnny would be foolish to decrease his leverage in this situation.

And it may not be just "a couple of months". It could be for the whole year. And I assume he needs to provide the list at the start of the year, or perhaps Calgary needs to request it. It varies.

It's pretty commonplace for players with a short list of teams they can be traded to to put all or most teams on the list who have zero interest in a rental player. Although they may put one team on that they love, which in Johnny's case would presumably be Philly.

I don't think we disagree much here. I think Gaidreau will list Philly, plus 4 teams he wouldn't mind being rented to. Or maybe 2 or three plus Vancouver and Edmonton.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This sounds familiar.

Yep, and it is where the frustrations of so many fans come from.

We’ve done this dance before. We’re a bubble team that bounces in and out of playoffs but continues to tinker here and there thinking that the stars will align and the team will prove itself to be something it has never truly shown itself to be.

Treliving is just doing what every previous middle to bottom tier GM has done here (/in all of the Canadian markets).

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Trying to blame anything on Iginla is just petty, and to say that man shafted the team in anyway during his time here? I have no time for that. That’s Oilers fan behaviour to dump on ex-players like that.

Dude had a full NMC and could do whatever he wanted.

The crap return is no one’s fault except Feaster and his incompetent stooge of an assistant Weisbrod.

Wouldn't it be Sutter's for signing him to a full NMC? Isn't that your point?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Wouldn't it be Sutter's for signing him to a full NMC? Isn't that your point?

No, because Jarome wouldn’t have signed here without a NMC/or would have signed a different contract (maybe for a bunch more money). It took a NMC to sign the player to that deal in the first place.

Feaster and Weisbrod were just terrible when it came to scouting prospects, and went after bad players. Bartkowski even gave an interview (part of the Boston offer) and he had it confirmed to him that he was a player the Flames specifically asked to be included in the deal. Feaster and Weisbrod were terrible at their jobs.