[PGT] Flames get a point but lose again

[Toonage]

I've watched a number of Canucks games the past few years, but I honestly don't recall Markstrom being as much of an adventure leaving his net as he has been so far in Calgary. Canucks fans on site, can you comment on this? Was he always this adventurous?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by codynw

People keep calling the Senators one of the worst teams in the league, but from what I've seen they're clearly better than Calgary.. so what does that make Calgary?

People literally say "do you want to be Ottawa" when mentioning a rebuild yet its probably more exciting being a Sens fan than a Flames fan. Quite a few people think this team is close despite the results year after year. This team is closer to a rebuild than it is to a contender. This is the Iginla era repeating itself. Learn from last time and be proactive with the rebuild and be patient with the rebuild. This middle ground were in is literally the worst spot in sports and it seems to be where the Flames organization loves to be.

If Sutter can't drastically turn this team around then I really hope the rebuild starts this summer.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by CGY12

I know you aren't saying he is better than Eichel, but nobody is going to balk on trading for Eichel because of his stats this year. Sure he is struggling to put up points but if you watch Buffalo, like I do, you see when he is on the ice he is still a major threat and has the skill set you want from a #1 C.

Nobody is saying they are "untradable", not sure where you are getting that from, but we may not have the desirable assets for Buffalo to consider trading him to us. I think the "multiple players better than anyone we have" is a exaggeration on you're part. The threads I've seen only mention Eichel as the desirable trade piece people want.

No management team just looks at stats and determines the value of a player solely based on that. It sucks but the stock of our core is slowly decreasing. Interestingly enough BT has been rumoured to be holding onto Bennett because he isn't getting what he wants in a deal, referencing Bennett's playoff performance as his true value over his reg season performance. For guys like Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, he probably has to do the opposite.

It's not just Eichel this season. He has never been a dominant force during his career. Buffalo signed him to a large deal based on potential, but he is starting to look like he might not reach - or come close - to that potential

This is his 6th year in the NHL. He has played 375 games and has 139 goals and 355 points. You know who has the same goals per game? Monahan.

He has one 30+ goal season. That season his SH% was 5% higher then any other season in his career. If anything, that season looks like the outlier.

He hasn't shown any ability to lead Buffalo anywhere. They have constantly tried to bring in players to play with him, and had it fail.

And we want to trade our 1st (which is looking like a top pick) Monahan and Lindholm? Plus pay Eichel 10 million?

Maybe there is a trade to be made, and maybe Calgary and Buffalo line up, but overpaying for Eichel isn't the solution to turn this team around

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by AC

That was one of the worst OT periods I've ever seen.

Absolutely the worst OT I've ever seen. Especially from the Flames. Constantly falling back to swing wide then cross over again only to swing around again. All that translated into a whole lotta nothing only for the other team to do the same.

Doesn't matter if it's my team; boring AF and no fan deserves to watch that.

Sutter definitely has his work cut out for him with this bunch. I have a feeling a few of the fan favorites are going to be in the dog house real quick.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I'm not that guy saying Monahan is better but Eichel has two goals this season...he hasn't been much of a factor either

No one has said that. What has been said is Eichel and Monahan are in the same strata of players. They play very different games but produce in the same band of centers which includes Toews, Pavelski, the much hyped O'Reilly, Kuznetsov, and Seguin. Is Eichel a more dynamic player? Yes. Is he better? That is very open to debate. Is he a franchise player worth $10M a season? Again, very open to debate but I don't believe so. Would I trade for him? Yes, but with very guarded expectations and with something built into the deal to minimize risk. I will say this about the Eichel situation, there are a lot of people who are suggesting that with a Draisaitl level player that Eichel would rip it up, well what about the addition of Taylor Hall? Is a recent Hart Trophy winner not enough to light a fire under Eichel's ass? The excuses for this kid are insane.

[Da_Chief]

Only watched the first period but kept hearing "not the same intensity as last nights BoA"

It's clearly the players, Darryl has his work cut out for him. If he turns this around, you give him the Jack Adams. It's been a long time since I've seen a lazier team in any sport. Their job literally is to play less than half hour of hockey every day or every other day and they can't bring it consistently? Their travel has been limited, their off-ice commitments are much less due to Covid.

I would much rather watch the nightmarish Young Guns era than this pathetic effort by this supposed "playoff contender".

Good luck Darryl.

[calumniate]

I'm not buying a Josh Leivo jersey anytime soon, but why on earth did Rinaldo get swapped in lol!

[Toonage]

The idea is that Rinaldo provides energy and a spark. The problem is that this team doesn't need just one boost to get them over the hump. Rinaldo would almost have to fight every shift he's out there.

[SilverKast]

This is just a bad team. I only watched a bit of the first period and then turned it off because it was just awful. I'm at the point where I wouldn't really care who they moved off the team because we're already out of the playoffs and near the bottom - so it's not like it could be a whole lot worse anyhow. At least get some players out there who look like they put in some effort.

Hopefully Darryl can get them going, looks like it's a big ask though.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

There is negligible difference between the stats of Markstrom the star in whom we have confidence and Rittich of whom we are now terrified.

Just saying

Before February 17th Markstrom had a .924 save percentage. Since then he's had a .838.

I think he's being poorly managed. He was overplayed to start the season, then gets injured when he's getting worn down, and then put straight into both games of a back to back immediately upon his return.

The goalie management hasn't been good for either goalie. It has been a bit of a mess. BSD deserved better also.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

It's not just Eichel this season. He has never been a dominant force during his career. Buffalo signed him to a large deal based on potential, but he is starting to look like he might not reach - or come close - to that potential

This is his 6th year in the NHL. He has played 375 games and has 139 goals and 355 points. You know who has the same goals per game? Monahan.

He has one 30+ goal season. That season his SH% was 5% higher then any other season in his career. If anything, that season looks like the outlier.

He hasn't shown any ability to lead Buffalo anywhere. They have constantly tried to bring in players to play with him, and had it fail.

And we want to trade our 1st (which is looking like a top pick) Monahan and Lindholm? Plus pay Eichel 10 million?

Maybe there is a trade to be made, and maybe Calgary and Buffalo line up, but overpaying for Eichel isn't the solution to turn this team around

You lose all credibility when you even suggest Monahan is at all similar to Eichel.

Buffalo is a mess, I'm not disputing that. Eichel needs a change in scenery to bring back that enthusiasm. Would you trade for McDavid, Draisatl, Barkov even tho Edmonton/Florida has been a constant failure? Eichel is absolutely in the same arena as players like Draisaitl and Barkov.

You talk about the ability to lead his team, where exactly has Monahan led the Flames? Anyway, I'm not saying I would include our 1st round pick in a trade even though Buffalo would probably want it but that is the only aspect of a deal I would be hesitant to give up. 2 of Monahan, Tkachuck, or Lindholm, I would drive them to the airport myself. Buffalo would probably say no.

Its not just Calgary management and fans that know how bad these players are in crunch time.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Only watched the first period but kept hearing "not the same intensity as last nights BoA"

It's clearly the players, Darryl has his work cut out for him. If he turns this around, you give him the Jack Adams. It's been a long time since I've seen a lazier team in any sport. Their job literally is to play less than half hour of hockey every day or every other day and they can't bring it consistently? Their travel has been limited, their off-ice commitments are much less due to Covid.

I would much rather watch the nightmarish Young Guns era than this pathetic effort by this supposed "playoff contender".

Good luck Darryl.

I hate to be the guy who agrees with Eric Francis (and no I am not Eric Francis), but he said something insightful during the intermission.

The energy for the BOA was great, and the energy vs Ottawa was terrible. Darryl is the kind of guy who can level out emotion across games, and make them engaged every game regardless of opponent.

We've seen flashes of what these players can do. If Darryl gets them to a place where they are playing consistently, we have a chance to make some noise. Brad needs to upgrade RW, but I think as long as you got Markstrom, you have to go for it.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by New Era

No one has said that. What has been said is Eichel and Monahan are in the same strata of players. They play very different games but produce in the same band of centers which includes Toews, Pavelski, the much hyped O'Reilly, Kuznetsov, and Seguin. Is Eichel a more dynamic player? Yes. Is he better? That is very open to debate. Is he a franchise player worth $10M a season? Again, very open to debate but I don't believe so. Would I trade for him? Yes, but with very guarded expectations and with something built into the deal to minimize risk. I will say this about the Eichel situation, there are a lot of people who are suggesting that with a Draisaitl level player that Eichel would rip it up, well what about the addition of Taylor Hall? Is a recent Hart Trophy winner not enough to light a fire under Eichel's ass? The excuses for this kid are insane.

One guy is an 80 pt a year producer (82 games)

One guy is more a 60 pt guy.

Not the same.

Only a dozen C's in the entire NHL have out-produced him since he came into the league

I agree that acquiring him, (beyond its not at all likely to happen) is fraught with peril when adding in the cost associated along with his cap hit. Though at his age he hasnt even come close to his peak IMO. He is a guy you want on your team for sure, but only to a certain cost.

As for Taylor Hall...yeah. Remember when people here were saying throw 9 million a year at him? He will help!! (disregarding he is yet another LW...something this club actually has in spades)

Admittedly i havent seen a lot of the Sabres but i did watch them on Saturday. Taylor was in complete derp mode. Just lost. Him signing there was just bizarre from day 1. Really really bad hockey team. Trading Eichel will not help them. So I dont see him moving unless he asks to get out...which is probably not that far off.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by Hackey

People literally say "do you want to be Ottawa" when mentioning a rebuild yet its probably more exciting being a Sens fan than a Flames fan. Quite a few people think this team is close despite the results year after year. This team is closer to a rebuild than it is to a contender. This is the Iginla era repeating itself. Learn from last time and be proactive with the rebuild and be patient with the rebuild. This middle ground were in is literally the worst spot in sports and it seems to be where the Flames organization loves to be.

If Sutter can't drastically turn this team around then I really hope the rebuild starts this summer.

Agree this is the Iginla era repeating itself, the big difference is this team has no one close to being half the hockey player Iggy was.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by calumniate

I'm not buying a Josh Leivo jersey anytime soon, but why on earth did Rinaldo get swapped in lol!

Because they had Watson on their starting is my guess. Regardless Rinaldo didnt cost the team last night.

With Sutter coming in you can count on seeing him and his ilk more than we have been when the situation calls for it. Lucic can do all that but usually its a bad trade off of who goes with him to the box.

[Fischy13]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I don’t know why people think Tkachuk is going to command $9M on his next deal. IMO he’ll either be the exact same or a couple hundred thousand more. He won’t be anywhere near $9M.

He might ask for that, but he’s not getting that.

He has to be qualified at 9m. If he isn't, he becomes a UFA. There's no way around it. Unless (I think) they offer a longer term deal, but he has to be qualified for at least 1 year at 9 mil.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

It's clearly the players

It's both. A coaching change needed to happen regardless. And with Sutter not having any practice time yet you can't automatically dismiss coaching and put the blame solely on the players.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Fischy13

He has to be qualified at 9m. If he isn't, he becomes a UFA. There's no way around it. Unless (I think) they offer a longer term deal, but he has to be qualified for at least 1 year at 9 mil.

He can sign a deal for 1M a year if he wanted to....the QO is only so they retain his rights and keep him RFA.

My guess is they do an 6 year deal next season for something like 8 per....unless he doesn't want to stay. Then he wont sign at all and will take the QO's until UFA.

The landscape has changed drastically since his last deal and what things were looking like in the future. He isnt alone.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CGY12

You lose all credibility when you even suggest Monahan is at all similar to Eichel.

They aren't "similar" they are in the same strata of centers as far as production is concerned. Eichel is in the same strata as Seguin and neither of those players are similar either. Scoring production and outcome supersedes what you perceive as "style."

Buffalo is a mess, I'm not disputing that. Eichel needs a change in scenery to bring back that enthusiasm. Would you trade for McDavid, Draisatl, Barkov even tho Edmonton/Florida has been a constant failure? Eichel is absolutely in the same arena as players like Draisaitl and Barkov.

Wait. Monahan and Eichel can't be in the same strata because the production gap is X points, but Eichel and Barkov are in the same class even though the same production cap exists, just going the other way? And then Eichel is in the same class as Draisaitl, who is better than two times that production gap? And you're claiming credibility and authority because you "watch" Buffalo?



Also, when does Eichel accept responsibility for his lack of impact on Buffalo? When does he make players better? When he takes a Zack Kassian or Alex Chaisson and turns them into a a contributing scorer on the first line you will have a leg to stand on. As it is you're a two legged stool.

You talk about the ability to lead his team, where exactly has Monahan led the Flames? Anyway, I'm not saying I would include our 1st round pick in a trade even though Buffalo would probably want it but that is the only aspect of a deal I would be hesitant to give up. 2 of Monahan, Tkachuck, or Lindholm, I would drive them to the airport myself. Buffalo would probably say no.

Well, to the post season four times? To the number two team in the NHL a few seasons ago? Yeah, he's been disappointing in some ways, but he's been solid during his seven year career and contributed to a team with a winning record over that time. What has Eichel done in his five years of NHL hockey?

Its not just Calgary management and fans that know how bad these players are in crunch time.

And how is Eichel in crunch time? No one knows, because Eichel has never played a meaningful game in his NHL career. Call me when Eichel does something of consequence, like be part of a playoff team or score a point in the post season. He's in his sixth season and has done nothing, not even be a scoring machine like McHobo or the German Gretzky. If this kid is a franchise player he should be able to put that team on his back and at least get some meaningful production out his line. These are concerns that every team is going to consider when they look at him. Add in a $10M cap hit and you have to be 100% certain this kid is worth the squeeze.

[UKflames]

Well I guess we are now going to find out if it really was the coach or whether a lot of the blame actually lies at the players feet. I mean Huska has only been in charge for two games and they got him canned already (Sarcasm required)

Ignore the first 5-6 games, that's the new coach bounce, it's the games after that where we see whether they really want it or not.