Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 10-20-2016, 12:10 PM   #21
Jason14h
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Exp:
Default

When the Jays have 3 first round picks this year from losing Bautista and EE they will be on the way.

Then Estrada after next year (or at the deadline) then Donaldson asking for a trade/letting them know he will not be signing with them.

The article seems to think Donaldson will sit around in his prime if the team tears down their lineup.... Ummm Not going to happen!

Don't worry the rebuild is coming! Best case is one more run at the playoffs next year

(Yes overly pessimistic but a real scenario possibility)

Would help if we had developed a hitter in the last 20 years since Vernon Wells!

Last edited by Jason14h; 10-20-2016 at 12:14 PM.
Jason14h is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 12:20 PM   #22
cross16
Scoring Winger
 
cross16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Exp:
Default

I don't think a "rebuild" is necessary. I think the Jays can be a playoff team and should continue to be a playoff team but I agree with the crux of the article that they can exactly go all in with bad deals either.

I'm also not against the idea of floating Happ and or Estrada out there in trade and seeing what you can get. For the right return, I would deal either one without hesitation because Jays would still have a very good rotation and the option to stretch out someone like Biagini or pick up someone else.

I think the Jays have enough prospect capable to pick up a few capable players. It's not like they need to land a big fish via trade. They've got that already, they need the suporting cast, assuming Edwin is back.
cross16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 12:24 PM   #23
CroFlames
Franchise Player
 
CroFlames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

Just hire Jonah Hill to put the team together using a computer
CroFlames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 12:37 PM   #24
Caged Great
Franchise Player
 
Caged Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

The jays don't have enough talent at the upper levels of their system to properly engage in a rebuild effort, especially with bats.

Alford and Guerrero are at least 2 years away and that's if everything goes alright.

For me, the thing that would make the most sense for this upcoming season is

EE 4 X 20
Add 1 decent hitting OF
Add a decent hitter for DH
Resign Barney if adequately cheap
Add 2 pen arms.
__________________
Fireside Chat - The #1 Flames Fan Podcast - FiresideChat.ca
Caged Great is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Caged Great For This Useful Post:
Old 10-20-2016, 12:40 PM   #25
Roof-Daddy
Franchise Player
 
Roof-Daddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caged Great View Post
The jays don't have enough talent at the upper levels of their system to properly engage in a rebuild effort, especially with bats.

Alford and Guerrero are at least 2 years away and that's if everything goes alright.

For me, the thing that would make the most sense for this upcoming season is

EE 4 X 20
Add 1 decent hitting OF
Add a decent hitter for DH
Resign Barney if adequately cheap
Add 2 pen arms.

You think we'll see Tellez next year?

He had a great year in AA, if he gets off to a good start in AAA next year I imagine we'll get a look at him at some point.
Roof-Daddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 12:46 PM   #26
JiriHrdina
I believe in the Pony Power
 
JiriHrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Exp:
Default

I tend to agree with others - the re-build is coming. That is a certainty. But I don't know that you get enough value from starting it next year, instead of the year after.
With the rotation they have coming back, the window to win is still open - and I think given this franchise's history, you owe it to the fan base not to close it yet.

That likely means reduced value from some of the pieces you could trade off now, but I still think that's the call.
JiriHrdina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 12:49 PM   #27
Jason14h
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Exp:
Default

EE 4*20 would be amazing . I'm guessing 28*6 years
Jason14h is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 12:51 PM   #28
Roof-Daddy
Franchise Player
 
Roof-Daddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Exp:
Default

Cecil pissed me off with his first few months of the season, but I find myself hoping they bring him back.

When he's off it's scary, but he's on more than he's off and he can be close to unhittable when he is on.

What does everyone think about Benoit?

He had a great year with the Jays, but he's 39 years old and ended his season with an injury.
Roof-Daddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 01:06 PM   #29
Senator Clay Davis
Franchise Player
 
Senator Clay Davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
Exp:
Default

I'll be surprised if Edwin is back. It'll be like Price last year, I think the Jays will make a good offer, but someone on the market will make a stupid offer and that will probably be that. That's why I think Jose could be back, I think he'll go out into market and get almost nothing good as far as long term offers, so maybe he signs a 1 year deal to come back and try and up his value for the next offseason. With the lack of LH hitters it might not be a bad call to bring Saunders back if you can sign him to a good deal. Outfield FAs look pretty weak so any upgrade there will probably be via trade, but not a lot of assets to get a premium player. But Shapiro is good at bargain hunting so we'll see.

Pitching is all about the bullpen obviously. I would try and bring Cecil back, he's mostly been solid the past couple years. Chapman seems unlikely though, I thought he said he was open to going back to the Yankees after the year and the Cubs will probably be right there to re-sign him too. Getting someone like Sergio Romo or Travis Wood would be nice bullpen pickups. I doubt they rebuild now, but if they are close to out of it by the All-Star break next year I'm sure we'll see some moves.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
Senator Clay Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Senator Clay Davis For This Useful Post:
Old 10-20-2016, 01:08 PM   #30
JiriHrdina
I believe in the Pony Power
 
JiriHrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Exp:
Default

I think it is time to move on from Jose no matter what you can sign him for.
Put the ball club in the hands of the new leadership group - led by JD.

Jose's ego will not allow him to accept the reduced role that he needs to - particularly in Toronto.
JiriHrdina is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to JiriHrdina For This Useful Post:
Old 10-20-2016, 01:10 PM   #31
Inferno
Franchise Player
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Pas, MB
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis View Post
I'll be surprised if Edwin is back. It'll be like Price last year, I think the Jays will make a good offer, but someone on the market will make a stupid offer and that will probably be that.
Except they didn't make Price an offer at all.
Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 01:18 PM   #32
cross16
Scoring Winger
 
cross16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Exp:
Default

Provided the deal isnt crazy I think your bring back Cecil. He had a slump but over the last few years he's been very good. Don't need have any other lefties worth trying.
cross16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 01:28 PM   #33
TheAlpineOracle
#1 Goaltender
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoFleury View Post
Yikes, didn't realize Russell made $20m. That's a lot of money to pay a great defensive player/leader who can't hit a fast ball.
He's such a good catcher that 20M is a bargain because he has a history of turning mediocre pitchers into quality contributors and thus they can spend less on pitching.

Do the Jays starters have the year they did without Martin? I personally doubt it.
TheAlpineOracle is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to TheAlpineOracle For This Useful Post:
Old 10-20-2016, 01:31 PM   #34
TheAlpineOracle
#1 Goaltender
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cross16 View Post
Personally I think Chapman is a pipe dream. I don't see Shapiro and co entertaining the type of contract Chapman will receive in FA. Might need 5 years and close to 60 million or more to get it done. That's a pretty outlandish deal for a closer IMO. I don't think that's smart nor in the cards given the salary commitments they already have.
The Jays are owned by a public corporation. Even if they had the funds at their disposal, there's no way Rogers signs off on bringing a star player fresh off an domestic assault debacle.
TheAlpineOracle is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TheAlpineOracle For This Useful Post:
Old 10-20-2016, 01:34 PM   #35
TheAlpineOracle
#1 Goaltender
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cross16 View Post
Provided the deal isnt crazy I think your bring back Cecil. He had a slump but over the last few years he's been very good. Don't need have any other lefties worth trying.
Cecil has cost the Jays valuable games in each of the past two seasons in the first couple of months of the season. We aren't talking a couple either, we're talking like 15. I'm tired of him not being prepared for when the season starts. I wouldn't mind moving on from him at all.
TheAlpineOracle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 01:41 PM   #36
Parallex
I believe in the Jays.
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caged Great View Post
EE 4 X 20
Add 1 decent hitting OF
Add a decent hitter for DH
Resign Barney if adequately cheap
Add 2 pen arms.
Don't think you get him for that low but yes they need to do a hard sell to get one of Edwin or Jose back (By preference Edwin).

Once you do that you won't have much money left to play with. I'd make a play for Josh Reddick in free agency to fill one OF spot and let Carrerra/Pompey/Upton platoon in the OF if possible.

Barney won't cost much so he should be brought back.

Pen Arms: Meh. Osuna, Grilli, & Biagini is a fine starting point. Just need a veteran lefty, some guy to eat #### innings, and a righty with good sinking action (even if nothing else) to bring in to get a groundball (A Shawn Camp type). Nothing to hard to get.

That would eat up all the money the Jays are likely to have (maybe more) anything else will have to come from the farm. Maybe Tellez is deemed ready.

Jays should be competitive next year.
__________________
Ken King should be fired.
Parallex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 01:45 PM   #37
Roof-Daddy
Franchise Player
 
Roof-Daddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Exp:
Default

As much as I'd love Chapman, I don't see any way Shatkins go after him. Way too much money, he will be highly sought after.

I also don't see any way they trade for Votto unless the Reds basically give him away for free. Remember the reports of Shapiro not being happy with AA's 2015 deadline moves where he sent a lot of prospects out for Tulo and Price? The plan will be to build from within so I wouldn't expect any splashy AA type trades.

Votto would be great to have though.
Roof-Daddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 01:49 PM   #38
Clever_Iggy
Franchise Player
 
Clever_Iggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: City by the Bay
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy View Post
I wonder if the Jays look to stretch out Biagini or Osuna?

Personally I'd rather they keep Osuna as a late inning bullpen guy/closer, but stretching out Biagini is intriguing to me.
Osuna's mechanics will keep him from being a starter and likely will limit his career (trying to find the story/tweet about this). The best way for him to prolong his MLB career is to stay in the pen and his best chance at a bigger salary is as a closer.

Here's the article from Tom Verducci:

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.si.com...odgers%3famp=1

Quote:
Key Player: Roberto Osuna. No closer is going to leave a tie game with the season on the line without some serious health concern, as Osuna did in the wild-card game against Baltimore. He said afterward that he was dealing with nothing more than a fatigued shoulder, but that’s alarming for a guy who has worked hard down the stretch and has a serious mechanical flaw in his delivery (he pulls his elbow higher than his shoulder before rotating the ball up, causing a timing problem and stress on his shoulder; it’s why despite having three solid pitches, he is not a starter).
His delivery is similar to Mark Prior, Strasburg, etc. (Inverted W). Some guys can get away with this delivery of they're not reliant on velocity (power pitchers). Osuna already blew through one UCL.
__________________
Crosby > Ovechkin. It's just that simple.

Last edited by Clever_Iggy; 10-20-2016 at 01:58 PM.
Clever_Iggy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Clever_Iggy For This Useful Post:
Old 10-20-2016, 02:05 PM   #39
cross16
Scoring Winger
 
cross16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Exp:
Default

Alykhan K. Ravjiani ‏@AlykhanKR 3m3 minutes ago
Fodder: The #BlueJays were 61-55 in games Bautista played this year.
They were 28-18 in the games Bautista didn’t play.

not trying to dump on Bautisa, but I think this is further proof he isn't that difficult to replace. Even if Edwin walks i'm not sure he comes back at any price.
cross16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 02:58 PM   #40
Cappy
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal14 View Post
Agreed - Upton/Pillar/Carrera is very weak but I'm hoping the strength of Donaldson/Encarnacion/Votto/Tulo would sustain the offence.



Yeah, if necessary make Chapman the closer and Osuna the fireman. I'm hoping the success and attention around Miller this post season will make managers and players start valuing that role more than the save statistic.
I think relievers, in general, are overvalued. So i wouldn't want to spend that kind of money on Chapman.
Cappy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:37 PM.

Calgary Flames
2017-18




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016