Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 06-14-2021, 04:19 PM   #321
chemgear
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Exp:
Default

chemgear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2021, 05:32 PM   #322
SportsJunky
Uncle Chester
 
SportsJunky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Exp:
Default

Jon Stewart caught Colbert a little off guard last night.


SportsJunky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2021, 07:38 PM   #323
Cali Panthers Fan
Franchise Player
 
Cali Panthers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Exp:
Default

^ no offense to Jon, but he should stick to politics, and even then he's not a full-on expert.

"Scientists are going to kill us all."


Okay, thanks Jon, remember that when you get your next colonoscopy and they catch an precancerous polyp that would kill you.

Honestly, the one thing that has pissed me off the most during this whole pandemic is non-scientific people thinking that they understand science well enough to explain things to people. Stay out of it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien View Post
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
Cali Panthers Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Cali Panthers Fan For This Useful Post:
Old 06-16-2021, 10:17 AM   #324
PsYcNeT
Franchise Player
 
PsYcNeT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Marseilles Of The Prairies
Exp:
Default

Quote:
More evidence suggests COVID-19 was in US by Christmas 2019
https://apnews.com/article/more-evid...bcf35d9e6caee2
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm View Post
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
PsYcNeT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 10:51 AM   #325
opendoor
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Exp:
Default

I'd take that with a bit of a grain of salt. Cross reactivity with other coronavirus antibodies means that COVID antibody tests can have a small false positive rate. On an individual level, it's tiny, so if you get a reliable test and it shows you being positive, chances are it's correct. But when you're testing 24,000 samples, even a test with a very high specificity rating will produce false positives.

So in this specific example, they used tests which are rated to be 99.5% and 99.7% specific, which would imply 70-120 false positives in a sample that size. To get around that limitation, they did sequential testing with two different antibody tests, so if a sample was positive in one of them, then they tested it on the other and if both showed a positive result then they counted it. Apparently they tested 1,000 known negative samples and none of them tested positive on both tests, so it seems like a pretty robust method.

Still though, they had 147 positives on one of the tests, and then 9 of those tested positive on the 2nd test, so I think there's still a chance of most or all of those being false positives. Particularly given that they have no evidence of travel history among those people or their close contacts and no real evidence of early outbreaks in the areas where these people lived.
opendoor is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to opendoor For This Useful Post:
Old 06-16-2021, 05:58 PM   #326
zamler
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan View Post
^ no offense to Jon, but he should stick to politics, and even then he's not a full-on expert.

"Scientists are going to kill us all."


Okay, thanks Jon, remember that when you get your next colonoscopy and they catch an precancerous polyp that would kill you.

Honestly, the one thing that has pissed me off the most during this whole pandemic is non-scientific people thinking that they understand science well enough to explain things to people. Stay out of it.
Are you a scientist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan View Post
This entire thread could be resolved with a prodigious use of Occam's Razor.

I don't want to entirely rule OUT a lab leak, but the far more likely explanation is an emergent virus through natural evolution and animal crossover. It happens frequently throughout history. Also, evolution is far more powerful than the average person understands, and often creates unique features that allow for survival (even though viruses aren't alive, they do use the same mechanisms for survival that living things do).

I guess it's less sexy to believe in a natural origin coming from animals. It's also less actionable, meaning there's nothing practical we can do to prevent it, nor is there anyone to blame for this.

Nature can sometimes be quite chaotic, and this is just another example of it. Unfortunately, humans have decided long ago that we can control every aspect of nature, but the reality is that we can only manage so much with our technologies and knowledge. Nature will still create chaos for us sometimes. It's just the way things are, and sometimes, there's nobody to blame for the bad things that happen in our lives, but humans are bad at rationalizing that. "Someone must be blamed!" *sigh*
zamler is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to zamler For This Useful Post:
Old 06-17-2021, 04:51 AM   #327
Snuffleupagus
Franchise Player
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamler View Post
Are you a scientist?
I think Cali is a teacher so I guess he's at least half way there.

Personally I think it came from the lab, but I'm not even a teacher #grainofsalt

The debate is interesting
Snuffleupagus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 05:10 AM   #328
TorqueDog
Franchise Player
 
TorqueDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary - Centre West
Exp:
Default

I’m totally fine with investigating the theory from a scientific perspective, but let’s not pretend like it’s the current leading hypothesis. Not saying you are, just a general statement toward something like Jon Stewart’s remarks.
__________________
-James
GO
FLAMES GO.
TorqueDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 10:53 AM   #329
Raekwon
First Line Centre
 
Raekwon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Airdrie, Alberta
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
I think Cali is a teacher so I guess he's at least half way there.

Personally I think it came from the lab, but I'm not even a teacher #grainofsalt

The debate is interesting
I always thought Occam's Razor in this case was a lab leak. How is animal to human transmission in close relation to a level 4 virology lab the simplest theory?

Edit: Just to be clear I'm saying its the simplest theory not that I think that's the case. I have no opinion as I have no facts.
Raekwon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 02:19 PM   #330
GGG
Franchise Player
 
GGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raekwon View Post
I always thought Occam's Razor in this case was a lab leak. How is animal to human transmission in close relation to a level 4 virology lab the simplest theory?

Edit: Just to be clear I'm saying its the simplest theory not that I think that's the case. I have no opinion as I have no facts.
Because the lab leak requires the virus to exist.

So it’s either Animal - Human virus exists in nature and doesn’t jump to humans in a meaningful way, is collected by lab, leaks out of lab and does affect humans in meaning file way and scientists cover up the lab leak.

Or

Animal virus exists, virus is enhanced by lab to infect humans better, leaks out of lab, scientists and China cover up the lab leak

Or

Animal to humans jump occurs and infects humans and no animals source is found in the next 18 months.

So in any lab option you need the virus to exist and a failure of controls, in a natural occurrence you only need the virus to exist.

Also Occam’s razor isnt that the simplest solution is most likely it’s the solution which requires the fewest assumptions is most likely and that would include all the aftermath and cover ups.

Last edited by GGG; 06-17-2021 at 07:38 PM.
GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to GGG For This Useful Post:
Old 06-20-2021, 12:12 PM   #331
Harry Lime
Franchise Player
 
Harry Lime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG View Post
Because the lab leak requires the virus to exist.

So it’s either Animal - Human virus exists in nature and doesn’t jump to humans in a meaningful way, is collected by lab, leaks out of lab and does affect humans in meaning file way and scientists cover up the lab leak.
This is the purpose of the lab.
__________________
"We don't even know who our best player is yet. It could be any one of us at this point." - Peter LaFleur, player/coach, Average Joe's Gymnasium
Harry Lime is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2021, 12:29 PM   #332
chedder
#1 Goaltender
 
chedder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
I think Cali is a teacher so I guess he's at least half way there.

Personally I think it came from the lab, but I'm not even a teacher #grainofsalt

The debate is interesting
And Cali is voicing his opinion to a few hundred fellow Flames fans, not millions of people that believe anything a celebrity says because he's on tv.
chedder is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2021, 07:26 PM   #333
bizaro86
Franchise Player
 
bizaro86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG View Post
Because the lab leak requires the virus to exist.

So it’s either Animal - Human virus exists in nature and doesn’t jump to humans in a meaningful way, is collected by lab, leaks out of lab and does affect humans in meaning file way and scientists cover up the lab leak.

Or

Animal virus exists, virus is enhanced by lab to infect humans better, leaks out of lab, scientists and China cover up the lab leak

Or

Animal to humans jump occurs and infects humans and no animals source is found in the next 18 months.

So in any lab option you need the virus to exist and a failure of controls, in a natural occurrence you only need the virus to exist.

Also Occam’s razor isnt that the simplest solution is most likely it’s the solution which requires the fewest assumptions is most likely and that would include all the aftermath and cover ups.
I don't know whether this virus occurred naturally (and I don't really care, to be honest, as that won't change any actions I take).

But imo if you stipulate that a virus leaked out of a Chinese lab and caused a worldwide pandemic I dont think its an assumption to say the CCP would aggressively cover it up. That's absolutely what they would do.
bizaro86 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to bizaro86 For This Useful Post:
GGG
Old 06-30-2021, 12:35 PM   #334
Torture
Loves Teh Chat!
 
Torture's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Exp:
Default

I mean if noted scientist and big thinker, Jon Stewart says that it came from a lab, who are we to argue with him?

I guess the Conservatives have also gone full on Qanon
https://twitter.com/user/status/1410257138757341192

Last edited by Torture; 06-30-2021 at 12:44 PM.
Torture is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2021, 12:49 PM   #335
Muta
Franchise Player
 
Muta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Auckland, NZ
Exp:
Default

I don't understand - is O'Toole indirectly suggesting that COVID originated out of Canada now? What the f*** was the point on this video? Seems to use a lot of time and words to explain a whole lot of... nothing, really.
Muta is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Muta For This Useful Post:
Old 06-30-2021, 12:59 PM   #336
Bring_Back_Shantz
Franchise Player
 
Bring_Back_Shantz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: In my office, at the Ministry of Awesome!
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muta View Post
I don't understand - is O'Toole indirectly suggesting that COVID originated out of Canada now? What the f*** was the point on this video? Seems to use a lot of time and words to explain a whole lot of... nothing, really.
They really liked to mention "Strong ties to the Chinese Military"
My first thought was "I'll bet there is some kind of mandatory military service and that's why they have these 'strong ties to the Chinese military'".

I checked, technically everyone has to serve, but they don't actually make everyone because they have enough volunteers, but everyone does have to sign up for service even if they never get called up or drafted.

I would be willing to bet that that is the extent of their "Strong ties".
__________________
THE SHANTZ WILL RISE AGAIN.
<-----Check the Badge bitches. You want some Awesome, you come to me!
Bring_Back_Shantz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2021, 01:00 PM   #337
TorqueDog
Franchise Player
 
TorqueDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary - Centre West
Exp:
Default

I'm impressed how he conflated several different things that are wholly unrelated to each other to try and make it seem as though the Canadian government basically enabled the creation of COVID-19.
__________________
-James
GO
FLAMES GO.
TorqueDog is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TorqueDog For This Useful Post:
Old 06-30-2021, 01:37 PM   #338
Puppet Guy
Franchise Player
 
Puppet Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: the dark side of Sesame Street
Exp:
Default

Why is Erin O'Toole speaking like William Shatner?
__________________
"If Javex is your muse…then dive in buddy"

- Surferguy
Puppet Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2021, 01:46 PM   #339
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Had to check that I didn't mistakenly click the morons thread after watching that video.

That'll put the nail in the coffin in terms of a vote from me for O'Toole. I respect and was in favour of a lot of what was in his leadership platform, but he's acted like a complete clown. This is embarrassing for the leader of a major party.
PepsiFree is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to PepsiFree For This Useful Post:
Old 06-30-2021, 01:47 PM   #340
pseudoreality
Powerplay Quarterback
 
pseudoreality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Exp:
Default

The title of this thread still really bugs me. It is not as bad as before, but the origins of coronaviruses is not what is being discussed, but rather the origins of SARS-CoV-2 specifically.

Last edited by pseudoreality; 06-30-2021 at 03:34 PM. Reason: typo
pseudoreality is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to pseudoreality For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:42 PM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021