Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Uh. The $130M sent back a combination of poor planning by the Feds and Alberta energy. Blaming the ucp is being misleading.

It is interesting that Saskatchewan did not have to send back the money

[belsarius]

We need to change the system and get away from FPTP. People deserve a voice in their government, and not just the lesser of two weevils.

As a Federal NDP supporter I hate to see how much popular support the party has but turned into less seats than the Bloc. But it was honestly equally as bad to see last provincial election that 10% of Albertans wanted the Alberta Party to be their voice, but had 0 seats.

If we want to get rid of voter apathy, we need to ensure that voters believe they have a voice and their vote will count for something. This province is full of orphaned right wing voters who don't want to vote NDP and don't want to vote bat #### crazy. And they are stuck in a system where they are told they only get that choice, so of course they won't care.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by belsarius

We need to change the system and get away from FPTP. People deserve a voice in their government, and not just the lesser of two weevils.

As a Federal NDP supporter I hate to see how much popular support the party has but turned into less seats than the Bloc. But it was honestly equally as bad to see last provincial election that 10% of Albertans wanted the Alberta Party to be their voice, but had 0 seats.

If we want to get rid of voter apathy, we need to ensure that voters believe they have a voice and their vote will count for something. This province is full of orphaned right wing voters who don't want to vote NDP and don't want to vote bat #### crazy. And they are stuck in a system where they are told they only get that choice, so of course they won't care.

Proportional rep in Alberta would probably get you a Danielle Smith/Artur Pawlowski government, which I guess would not be too different from what Alberta currently has.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by belsarius

As a Federal NDP supporter I hate to see how much popular support the party has but turned into less seats than the Bloc. But it was honestly equally as bad to see last provincial election that 10% of Albertans wanted the Alberta Party to be their voice, but had 0 seats.

This particular example - when it happened - really irked me. 10% of Albertans voted for a particular representative and got . . . nothing. That's when I really started to give a #### about electoral reform, both provincially and federally.

Also, over 80% of Canada's population lives in urban areas. FPTP inherently suppresses many Canadian's votes simply because of density and where they live. In FPTP, it doesn't matter how concentrated the vote is geographically. That's a problem IMO.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Proportional rep in Alberta would probably get you a Danielle Smith/Artur Pawlowski government, which I guess would not be too different from what Alberta currently has.

This is also the biggest "complaint" about MMP is that it will give too much power to the fringes. But what we are seeing in real time, is that the fringes are already gaining a lot of power by taking over the established parties. So I don't know if that's what we would get for sure, I honestly think it would be closer to having a PC/AP centre-right party taking the 3rd amount of votes and the UCP having to take the edge off a lot of policies to get their support.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

It is interesting that Saskatchewan did not have to send back the money

Yah the Sask program was set up much better. Alberta energy really dropped the ball. Was also much less money.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://twitter.com/user/status/1654129504217071616


That time Smith donated other people's money to a "law firm" that has 2 of its "lawyers" criminal charged. What wonderful judgment she has. Looking forward to more of this kind of excellent thinking for 4 more years.

The original lawyer tasked with handling the class action law suit, derek from, is also a lawyer at the firm run by... Smith's Executive Director

[woob]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Okay, but now set that resource revenue at a steady $5 Billion.
Give everyone an equal footing and compare how they do.

You do that, and all 4 NDP years are in the black (not borrowing for opperations).
The UCP on the other hand wind up with 2 of their 4 years in the red, and the ones where the UCP are in the black, it starts to look pretty close to break even.

Your response will likely be that the UCP had Covid to deal with. Sure that's fair. Why would we penalize a government for something that was out of their control? (You know, like you constantly do to the NDP).

So let's take a closer look at 2019-2020. That goes March 19-March 20, so it doesn't include the impact of Covid in any real way
Resource revenue for the UCP was higher than at any point in the NDP years.
But Operating Expenses are up $1 Billion.

Also what's that...taxes dropped...cause that's what they campaigned on.
So that's a year where the UCP borrowed to pay for operating expenses, and the majority of it is because of their own policy of lower taxes. (NDP Taxes dropped as well, that was largely due to lower mineral taxes, so tied directly to oil/gas prices, i.e. they get double whammied by low prices, UCP get to double dip on it for 21-22, and 22-23)

The NDP committed your cardinal sin because they had to (Resource revenue dropped >5 Billion)
The UCP committed your cardinal sin, in no small part because they chose to. (at least for their first year, before they really had to deal with Covid)

You just argued that the NDP made zero cuts and increase spending when a revenue drop was imposed on them.
Meanwhile the UCP made zero cuts and increase spending...and CREATED A REVENUE DROP.

So please tell us again how you can never vote for someone because they borrowed for operations. Because to me, it looks like you're planning to do exactly that.

This is a great post and I look forward to Slava's response.

But also; I believe Slava has stated numerous times he won't be voting UCP? I could be remembering incorrectly.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

This particular example - when it happened - really irked me. 10% of Albertans voted for a particular representative and got . . . nothing. That's when I really started to give a #### about electoral reform, both provincially and federally.

Also, over 80% of Canada's population lives in urban areas. FPTP inherently suppresses many Canadian's votes simply because of density and where they live. In FPTP, it doesn't matter how concentrated the vote is geographically. That's a problem IMO.

That AP stat also annoyed me at the time. I guess the question is, is electoral reform to a proportional representation a serious discussion? And if so, why are politicians so hesitant to lead this change?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by woob

This is a great post and I look forward to Slava's response.

But also; I believe Slava has stated numerous times he won't be voting UCP? I could be remembering incorrectly.

Good point.
I've edited my post accordingly.

[Cappy]

https://www.nationalobserver.com/202...e-conservative

An epic gem from Smith's past: https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...ection-choices

Notley is, without question, the inheritor of the Lougheed tradition. That’s not to say he was a full on socialist, but Notley isn’t either. I think most Albertans have been shocked to see how pragmatic she has governed, particularly as it concerns natural resources.

[Fuzz]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1654180469452296194


LOL of the day goes to Smith for expecting healthcare workers to vote for the UCP, and blaming the NDP for problems in the healthcare system.

Could someone pass on a note to Danielle? Healthcare workers aren't nearly as dumb as she is. Also, you can't take credit for the respiratory virus season winding down. That's not how reality works.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don’t understand why you can’t discuss things like an adult without resorting to name calling and being so caustic. Anyway, they got bailed out by rising energy prices in the last two years of their term. It’s not hard to figure out.

Hey now: I didn't call you names, I just said you were acting like one.

I'm sure I do seem very caustic to you, but I believe it or not it's not out of malice. It's more frustration than anything, because I do actually think positively of you, but as I've written multiple times now you persist in making excuses for the UCP, and you repeat age-old conservative talking points about "how much worse the NDP are fiscally" when actually real-world experience shows us that's blatantly untrue. You seem to get so close to finally having this 'click', and then you'll spout some baseless crap about how much worse the NDP would be.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://twitter.com/user/status/1654180469452296194


LOL of the day goes to Smith for expecting healthcare workers to vote for the UCP, and blaming the NDP for problems in the healthcare system.

Could someone pass on a note to Danielle? Healthcare workers aren't nearly as dumb as she is. Also, you can't take credit for the respiratory virus season winding down. That's not how reality works.

eesh from the same twitter thread, maybe reason number 1001 for healthcare workers not to vote UCP is the fact that Preston Manning is now in charge of public health decisions

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://twitter.com/user/status/1654180469452296194

Maybe we should be listening to how blue collar and healthcare workers feel from them directly instead of from someone with a proven track record of lying.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by woob

This is a great post and I look forward to Slava's response.

But also; I believe Slava has stated numerous times he won't be voting UCP? I could be remembering incorrectly.

Well, prepare for disappointment. We're just arguing in circles, and there's not point. I say they way overspent in 2015 and BBS says yes, but they had to. We're never going to convince each other, so it just doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by timun

Hey now: I didn't call you names, I just said you were acting like one.

I'm sure I do seem very caustic to you, but I believe it or not it's not out of malice. It's more frustration than anything, because I do actually think positively of you, but as I've written multiple times now you persist in making excuses for the UCP, and you repeat age-old conservative talking points about "how much worse the NDP are fiscally" when actually real-world experience shows us that's blatantly untrue. You seem to get so close to finally having this 'click', and then you'll spout some baseless crap about how much worse the NDP would be.

No, I'm not making excuses for the UCP. I'm saying that while I will likely end up voting for the NDP, I do worry about them fiscally, and here's why. It's not "age-old conservative talking points", it's the facts of what they did and what they refused to do when they put out their budgets. It's not like I made this up...S&P and Fitch told them before they released the budgets that they shouldn't do this, and they did it any way! That's why the credit rating got cut. That's just literally what happened.

[Muta]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1654111921686052864

[Faust]

The entire Twitter thread here is worth reading:


Benjamin Thibault @ThibaultBen
It's been a hectic few hours, but here is what we know about how @ABDanielleSmith, @rebeccakschulz, @BrianJeanAB and @Alberta_UCP are lying to you about net-zero electricity. #ableg #abpoli #abelxn 🧵 @JSJamato @CanadianPress @TorontoStar @calgaryherald

https://twitter.com/thibaultben/stat...005311488?s=21

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Yah the Sask program was set up much better. Alberta energy really dropped the ball. Was also much less money.

As a fellow oilpatch guy this R* thing is gross and embarassing.

If this incentive is a go forward thing, I can see the point/kinda.

I started 20+ many years ago working for the orphan well program. This was absolutely a 100% foreseeable problem. Companies like Cenovus (BBS, or its predecessor) and more importantly CNRL would send very heavy handed letters (that was the way at the time) and I would be forced to remove language/things from Directive 13, G20, all that.

None of that really would have helped. Back 30 years ago Imperial sold a field in big valley with a couple hundred wells and a battery/plant to a dentist. A clear unloading of liabilities on to a ignorant person who ran it into the ground and went bankrupt. Now we have to clean up the stuff.

That is an example of why the orphan fund and LLR and deposits and all this came into effect.

How the hell did Lexin get those assets (2000+ wells), who the hell did Sequoia get those assets? It is 99.9% because they do not have anyone that has a clue.

But at the same time, you see this absolute moronic commentary "oil companies cannot pay for their liabilities". Company A goes under so CNRL has to pay? WTF? They have set up an orphan fund to pay for their ####ty bros.

Does Humptys need to pay Galaxie Diners employees salary when they go out of business. F No. Your neighbor three doors down doesn't pay for his reno, now you are on the hook.

[Monahammer]

What exactly does the Premier think the NDP's "energy plan" is?

https://www.albertandp.ca/competitiv...tment-strategy
This is their "competitiveness, jobs, and investment strategy" and it comes closest to approaching energy sector policy IMO. The key points are below, and I am unsure at all what a blue collar worker would oppose. They include more incentives and less regulatory approval time for petrochemical projects.

Our strategy:
Create an Alberta’s Future Tax Credit targeting growth in emerging industrial sectors
Supercharge the Alberta Petrochemical Incentive Program we created when in government
Use Performance Fast Pass to speed up the approvals of projects for responsible companies
Consult with Indigenous communities on expansion of the Alberta Indigenous Opportunity Corporation
Repeal Danielle Smith's job-killing, anti-Canadian Sovereignty Act