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Old 10-19-2020, 08:22 PM   #61
Mickey76
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I hate when “it’s complicated” is used as an excuse for the government not doing their job. You decide what moderate living is, put a number on it and that is the law. Is it hard? Maybe, but we elect prime ministers to do hard things. If it is was easy a drama teacher could do it.

Think about the detail that went into the GST. I mean someone decided that 5 donuts should have GST and 6 shouldn’t. If that guy is still around hire him.
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Old 10-19-2020, 08:58 PM   #62
iggy_oi
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Originally Posted by OMG!WTF! View Post
The government determines how much and for how long people get ei all the time.
Apples meet oranges

EI to my knowledge has never been ruled as a right by the Supreme Court. No idea if it’s ever been a treaty issue before though.

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It's not hard.
Why hasn’t it been done then? This issue has been ongoing for decades.

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The wording around modest livelihood is enough to pay housing, food and living costs but not enough to contribute to a savings account. Figure out costs of living and voila. If it's off by a few bucks either way, make a case and see what the judge says.
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Originally Posted by Mickey76 View Post
I hate when “it’s complicated” is used as an excuse for the government not doing their job. You decide what moderate living is, put a number on it and that is the law. Is it hard? Maybe, but we elect prime ministers to do hard things. If it is was easy a drama teacher could do it.
It seems you’re both firmly in the camp of punish people who are doing nothing wrong for no other reason than to appease a small minority of the population who are taking issue with them

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Think about the detail that went into the GST. I mean someone decided that 5 donuts should have GST and 6 shouldn’t. If that guy is still around hire him.
There’s them apples and oranges again...
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Old 10-19-2020, 09:33 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by iggy_oi View Post
You don’t think limiting someone’s earnings based on their heritage is racist?



In your view, which part of the treaty relating to this matter has the government of Canada not fulfilled? Honest question. Besides maybe not doing enough to stop people from engaging in criminal acts against people who aren’t doing anything illegal, but I think that should probably be left up to law enforcement to deal with.



If I’m understanding you correctly you’re basically saying you’re ok with them making above what is defined as a “moderate” living so long as they fight for it in court.



In the meantime the government would not be able to enforce this without taking on a potentially very costly legal battle that they would IMO probably lose.
Specifically they have the right to trade, which was reinterpreted as a moderate income is not being protected.

From the government of Canada website on the treaties

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In the reciprocal portion of the treaty, the British agreed not to molest the communities' fishing, hunting, planting and 'other lawful activities.
https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/.../1539609517566

The whole page is a solid read
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Old 10-19-2020, 09:36 PM   #64
bizaro86
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There are two separate issues here:

1) the indigenous people have a contractual right to a moderate livelihood fishery

2) the government has the obligation to steward an environmental resource

Both are important. The government needs to negotiate a definition of moderate livelihood with the First Nations. If they can't reach a negotiated settlement then you litigate it up to the Supreme Court. Once the contractual rights are determined, then you know how many lobsters that uses per year.

If that, combined with existing inshore and offshore fishery is too many lobsters for conservation reasons, then you buy back some licenses until its enough. Clearwater just sold 2 (of 8 total) offshore licenses for $25 MM. They would sell the other 6 for enough money, and the inshore fleet would sell its licenses for money as well.

Edited to add: obviously the RCMP not enforcing the law and allowing riots/vandalism is a problem as well. I suspect if they dealt with issues 1/2 this would resolve itself, at least on the larger scale. You might still have some idiots/racists who need to be dealt with.

Last edited by bizaro86; 10-19-2020 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 10-19-2020, 09:44 PM   #65
OMG!WTF!
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It seems you’re both firmly in the camp of punish people who are doing nothing wrong for no other reason than to appease a small minority of the population who are taking issue with them
No not at all. I'm just certain someone somewhere somehow can figure out the cost of living in Nova Scotia. And I have no problem limiting the overall catch off season when conservation or market forces or indigenous treaty boundaries require. None of this is complicated. It's just that guys like you scream racism whenever the topic comes up and no one wants to suggest an actual number. It's no good for either of the parties involved. And I really just want to be clear on understanding if there is anything preventing indigenous fishers from working during the lobster season and catching as much as anyone else. Other than that, I completely agree with indigenous hunting/fishing rights on treaty land and water. And I think all trappers, indigenous or "settler" should be hung with their own snares.

Last edited by OMG!WTF!; 10-19-2020 at 10:05 PM.
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