Dexter

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

This makes no sense. If people can only dislike things if they can do better, then no one would comment on movies or sports.

Being a screenwriter or an athlete are not prerequisites for commenting on tv/movies or sports.

I get what you're saying, and I get DJs questions.

People like what they like, and that's fine.

I'm still curious about the hate of the finale though. Is it just people who were hoping Dexter would go on? I get that. i guess I really liked this new series as a limited run and found the season and finale very satisfying, whereas the last 3-4 seasons of the original was not at all satisfying and it felt like effort slogging through it by the end.

Personally, I would have hated a cop out ending with a convenient last minute escape with his son.

I also enjoy seeing Dexter realizing he really did hurt good people and wasn't the good guy that Harrison pumped him up to be. I guess some might not have liked that turn?

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I get what you're saying, and I get DJs questions.

People like what they like, and that's fine.

I'm still curious about the hate of the finale though. Is it just people who were hoping Dexter would go on? I get that. i guess I really liked this new series as a limited run and found the season and finale very satisfying, whereas the last 3-4 seasons of the original was not at all satisfying and it felt like effort slogging through it by the end.

Personally, I would have hated a cop out ending with a convenient last minute escape with his son.

I also enjoy seeing Dexter realizing he really did hurt good people and wasn't the good guy that Harrison pumped him up to be. I guess some might not have liked that turn?

That's where I'm at too.

And the "what ending would you prefer" question is a genuinely curious one, not snobbery. Some of these youtube reviewers that were disapproving have had an endless list of thoughts and detailed theories about the show through this run. So I don't think it's a bad question to ask what hypothetical plot might work better than this one, in part because I think they could actually offer a couple ideas.

I'd like to imagine their alternative to see if it would actually match the satisfaction of this ending, or exceed it. As it was I thought was a solid 8/10 in terms of satisfying.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

I thought the ending was terrible, and outside of this forum, the reception has been overwhelmingly negative. It was like bad fan fiction made it onto television or something.

A good ending would have been Dexter needing to make a choice between Angel and his son, or the cop he killed and his son, or his girlfriend and his son, and then taking off and being chased by the authorities. They could have set up a whole season of Dexter on the run, which would have been very entertaining, followed by a season of courtroom drama, as someone suggested earlier in this thread. Heck, I would take a season of Dexter in prison just trying to survive.

I thought the kid who played his son was a terrible actor and a very poor casting choice. He just walked around angry all the time.

The show jumped the shark a long time ago, but killing the friendly police officer guarding him in the cell was just so out of place with everything else that went before it. Horrible writing. There were so many holes in this plot it makes me wonder how the scripts got approved.

Are those are endings though? Those are interesting developments but they just lead to more seasons that create an extension of the story for more, rather than a definitive conclusion that closes the book.

I'd have loved a season on the run or an incarceration plot too. But then how did you End-end it?

The dilemma thing would be intriguing, but I don't know if it would be fitting or tie into the whole of the show in the same way.

The way I saw it, this was Dexter answering for the people he has hurt and the scene when confronted by Harrison answers the question as to whether he could be seen and accepted/loved as the monster he is.

I'm not sure if an Angel/Harrison who lives or dies dilemma ties into the themes of the show in the same way. Sounds more like a cliffhanger for the sake of "what if" drama.

This end answers some core questions that have persisted through the course of the show and was an overarching theme. Deb learned who he was, but she never witnessed all the details of what he does in order to determine whether or not she could accept or still love him.

I didn't see it as he "snapped" & set out to kill Logan there. He tried to subdue him and I'm assuming get him to pass out. Says outright he doesn't want to harm him. Then Logan tried to use his firearm. Seems like a momentary thing where something rash was at risk of occurring.

Its totally fair to see that development in a different light. That's just how I saw it unfold.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Dexter not telling Harrison that he didn’t kill Logan was perhaps the most glaring example of an idiot plot in tv history.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Dexter not telling Harrison that he didn’t kill Logan was perhaps the most glaring example of an idiot plot in tv history.

I don't understand?

[djsFlames]

To be fair to that point, in that moment it did feel a little bit like "this is where I surrender to my fate" from Dexter, who usually is adept with manipulating his way out of corners. You think he would've insisted that it was an accident and he tried to just incapacitate him in order to escape. He was trying to convince his son to flee... might help his case.

Though I still think Harrison would've been mad about it, called him reckless and probably came to the same verdict.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

I thought the ending was terrible, and outside of this forum, the reception has been overwhelmingly negative. It was like bad fan fiction made it onto television or something.

A good ending would have been Dexter needing to make a choice between Angel and his son, or the cop he killed and his son, or his girlfriend and his son, and then taking off and being chased by the authorities. They could have set up a whole season of Dexter on the run, which would have been very entertaining, followed by a season of courtroom drama, as someone suggested earlier in this thread. Heck, I would take a season of Dexter in prison just trying to survive.

I thought the kid who played his son was a terrible actor and a very poor casting choice. He just walked around angry all the time.

The show jumped the shark a long time ago, but killing the friendly police officer guarding him in the cell was just so out of place with everything else that went before it. Horrible writing. There were so many holes in this plot it makes me wonder how the scripts got approved.

Those all feel like cheap, cliched endings to drag on the show into crappy seasons to me.

When do you see it jumping the shark?

I thought it badly jumped the shark season 5-6ish, and was terrible for the last couple seasons of the original run. This run had the feel of the old Dexter and all the suspense it built from episode to episode and it was a fun ride to have one more season.

Killing Logan worked for me as the start of his downfall. He built himself up as a vigilante super hero to his son, but that wasn't the whole story of his past. His son got to see what happened to the code when he got trapped.

[Jacks]

Just caught the finale, I thought the first finale sucked.

[direwolf]

Man, some of you guys are way too hard to please. Personally I thought those last 4 episodes were right up there with the best of the series, and as a long time fan I was thoroughly satisfied with the ending.

The kid who played Harrison was terrific IMO, and Michael C. Hall was excellent as usual, particularly in those final two episodes. Clancy Brown's character made for a pretty great villain as well.

[Jacks]

Different strokes I guess, I found the Harrison character completely unlikable.

[djsFlames]

I do think that Dexter has been written to be a clutsier version of the original character since about season 6, which includes killing in the church, where his sister could just stroll in, and an airport, as well as failing to think of the communal fire chute thing to dispose of a body in this season.

Whereas in the original first few seasons we were usually being surprised by how Dexter was often a step ahead of his victims and pursuers (with a couple obvious exceptions).

But after accepting that we would get a continuation of that slightly dumbed down version of the character, which I think they passed off here as him being out of practice, the last four episodes in particular really stood out, at least by the standards of the show post-Rita. And the 9th episode was up with some of the best of the first 4 seasons.

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

This makes no sense. If people can only dislike things if they can do better, then no one would comment on movies or sports.

Being a screenwriter or an athlete are not prerequisites for commenting on tv/movies or sports.

I wasn’t asking him to write a better script. Hell, I would have liked the writers of Dexter to have written a better script. Lots of plot holes, convenient escapes, glossed over characters, etc. Hell, I said it early in the series that I was expecting more from the series since it was competing with all the great shows that had come out since the end of season 7.

I was just curious if he (or the others who didn’t like the ending) was hoping it would go another way.

It seems that many of the people who didn’t like it, really didn’t like that he died and wanted more seasons.

It was billed as a mini-series, no on-going series or reboot, so we almost should have expected this to be the end of the character.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

The show jumped the shark a long time ago, but killing the friendly police officer guarding him in the cell was just so out of place with everything else that went before it. Horrible writing. There were so many holes in this plot it makes me wonder how the scripts got approved.

I think when he killed Logan it signalled the point of no return for Dexter. He had not only broken his code, it was the first murder that he could not cover up in any way. I felt that moment that that Dexter was not going to survive the ending.

I have mixed feelings about the ending. Like many fans I was attached to Dexter but the reality is that he really wasn't a good person and fully deserved the death penalty so the ending is just for the Bay Harbor Butcher. A part of me wishes he would have escaped with Harrison and provide the possibility of a father/son spinoff but I suppose that was never in the cards for the series.

Overall I enjoyed the season. It didn't start off great but the middle to end was solid and I was happy to see Dexter one more time. We watched Dexter side by side with Yellowstone Season 4 so maybe Dexter stood better than it was because Yellowstone Season 4 was so bad. We were entertained so mission accomplished and I think this was a much better ending for one of greatest TV characters ever than the original one.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Dexter didn’t kill Logan. Logan shot himself while trying to kill dexter.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Dexter didn’t kill Logan. Logan shot himself while trying to kill dexter.

I just re-watched that scene and after Logan misses his shot you hear a very distinct snapping sound, which I think indicates that Dexter broke his neck. Dexter's body would have blocked any ricochet and there was no wound on Logan's back when Dexter went to roll him over.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Huh. You’re right. I’m not sure why I thought it was from a ricochet. I think it was the way they edited it and the sound effect.

Dexter you murderer!

Doesn’t change much for me. Watchable but meh season. I’d rank it similar to S3. Way below 1, 2 and 4.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by KTrain

Honest question, what would have been a satisfying ending for you?

IMO it went off the rails when Dexter killed Logan so I'd basically just keep everything else in that episode as is up til then.

So if I were to have a crack at it?

Logan will come bring Dexter water, but order Dexter to the back of his cell first instead (like you are supposed to do). He asks what Dex revealed to Angela the same way. Dex will reveal truthfully his previous identity as Dexter Morgan, that he had been using his experience assisting in Angela's previous investigation on Iris, and that he just found Angela's "missing girls" on her wall and where to go, and that's why she rushed out the door cursing.

Logan will, predictably, immediately demand to know where. Dexter says, you'll find out in a few moments anyway once she gets there and sees for herself, and it's better you hear it from Angela than me. I don't want to be the one to say it. Sorry.

Angela will immediately radio in panicked and crying. Logan answers this time. Angela will do her line as she did normally in the episode. Logan has a different, intense look in his eye when she mentions the words "Caldwell property" while he looks at Dex.

Logan will ask her what to do about Dexter/Jim. She goes - just leave him there in the holding cell and get your ass out here, we can come back in the morning and worry about it then, I have to deal with this first, #### him for now, every unsolved girl off my wall is here. This is what I originally signed up to be a cop for in the first place.

Angela will then call Teddy to report the bodies at the Caldwell cabin as well, that Kurt most likely skipped the F outta town. She tells him that Logan's on his way now for backup so get back to the station to get on the horn, letting the statewide and national authorities know there is a killer on the loose.

Teddy will have the same reaction as he did in the episode, then hightail it back to the station. Arrives back to the station in a huge sweaty fuss. Dexter calls out to him and asks what's going on. Teddy says that Kurt's a killer and on the loose.

Dexter will feign panic, telling Teddy truthfully that Kurt was unusually close to Harrison, even grooming him a little, and that he needs to go see his son right now because clearly they have the wrong man in the cell and he might be after Harrison next.

Teddy will blanch and go, oh ####! Buddy, I do wanna let you out but Angela did say to leave you here til morning, and she's the boss-man so... Look, right after I make a bunch of phone calls I'm going to go sub out for Logan so he can go check on Harrison. That okay?

Dexter will say alright fine thanks after his excuse is a wash, realizing he has to face Batista anyway.

Cut to a shot of Logan & Angela in the bunker comforting each other... she's just shown him Molly's embalmed corpse at the end of the trophy hall.

Dex will have a moment where the audience is faked out by a scene of him luring Teddy in the same way and then murdering the #### out of him, playing out the same way as Logan's in the real episode.

Then reveal that it was just a fantasy (like the Harrison killing the bullies sequence), with the classic house theme playing, and that Dexter still in his cell sullenly watching Teddy in slow motion doing frantic hand-talking as he's calling the authorities with a dry-ass voiceover to match

Teddy comes back to the cell, says OK just called Logan, I'm headed out there to Angela and he's going to come back here and check up on Harrison on the way. I'm sure we'll get you out of here soon, but orders are orders man. Hang on tight, sorry.

Conversation with Deb while he waits. She's trying to convince him to turn himself in as the BHB to protect Harrison.

Logan brings Harrison back to the station to show Dex that he's safe and sound. Lets Dex out of his cuffs momentarily so they can embrace in private. Harrison asks wtf is going on again and Dex will then reveal that the evidence points strongly to Kurt, but Angela still suspects he's the Bay Harbor Butcher.

Neither of them say it but after eye contact, Harrison immediately realizes that his father has to indeed be the one and only BHB. He can't say it since they're in front of Logan, so he says Yeah I know about the background very well, listened to Molly's Merry ####ing Kill episode. Batman-level ####.

Logan asks Dexter how he found out about the murder cabin. Harrison interjects, says he had creepy vibes about Kurt also and wanted to help Dex's 'private investigation' so he offered the drone up as he's a skilled pilot. Logan calms down, says well at least he can fly one better than Teddy.

Logan offers to give Harrison a ride back to Audrey's - Dexter says no.... go get him a room from Tess instead - her mom and my now ex-gf just arrested me off a random note and an obvious evidence-plant and likely put my son in a dangerous position in the sights of a killer that visited her place Christmas morning, and she also put me in a jail cell where I can't protect him, so she can #### off. I can bitch at her in the morning when she comes back to my cell.

Predictably, not much argument from Logan is offered. Goes off and drives Harrison back to the inn.

Timeskip to morning. The authorities have started to arrive at the kill cabin. Angela recieves a call on her cellphone - it's Batista saying hello, who arrived by bus and is having breakfast at the inn, asking where he can find Dextuh.

Angela says he should be still in his holding cell at the police station - I can't come pick you up now, really sorry, I just found the bodies of all those missing girls we talked about at the conference just a few hours ago and one of the old rich white dudes in town probably murdered them all.

Batista says ohhhhh holy ####!! Ok take your time I'll head down there to see Dex myself.

Harrison comes down for breakfast and sees Batista drop his wallet. He picks it up like a good samaritan, excuse me sir you dropped this. Batista says well thank you kid, everyone in this town seems so charming. You from around here? Harrison says no, just got into town recently, been looking for his estranged dad but they've reconciled over the holidays.

This tickles that great big heart of Batista, who smiles and says well great to meet you son, I'm Angel Batista. Just here for some police work for a little bit. What's your name?

Harrison goes nice to meet you Mr Batista, my name is Harrison.
Batista goes, well great to meet you Hawwison. Gotta get going now.
As soon as he turns away he finally clues in (cmon its Batista) on Harrison's identity with the [DEXTUHHHH????] face, but Harrison's already disappeared lol

Cut to the police station for a slo mo scene (with the classic Blood theme) of Logan showing Batista where Dexter's cell is. Archive footage of Doakes doing the "i'm watching you Morgan" fingers here.

Dexter stands up for a poker face face-off with Angel like in the Trinity scene. Deb is behind him as he stands, but disappears in the face off shot.

"Hola, Dex-tuh Morgan." End credits. Announce S02 Monday morning instead of that stupid-ass blu ray nonsense.

[nfotiu]

Solid effort. It's fair enough to want Dexter to live and more seasons. I guess I just don't understand the comments about how him dying made the whole season a waste of time and they shouldn't have bothered.

Personally, I love that they didn't definitively say this would be a one and done or on-going. We truly had no idea whether the main character would make it out alive or not, and that is pretty rare in TV series. Usually you can count on the main characters finding a convenient way out of certain doom. I personally love some of the HBO type one and done series that are restricted to keep the money making stars alive, and it makes the stakes a lot higher.

I guess there is a lot of disagreement in the killing of Logan. I personally found it believable. He tried to do it cleanly, but now that he has someone in his life he truly loves, self preservation took over. The code enabled him to hurt a lot of people and indirectly led to some good people dying over the years, so he wasn't really the hero he thought he was and that Harrison was pumping him up to be.

It all kind of played out fine for me. Once she knew he was the Bay Harbor butcher, and Batista knew, there was no realistic way to go find a new life any more. Killing Logan solidified that more and showed Harrison that he was a little darker than he was trying to sell.

Part of me wanted more Dexter, but I'd also have felt a little empty if they built this all up and had him conveniently disappear with his son to drag on another few seasons of narrow escape.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

IMO it went off the rails when Dexter killed Logan so I'd basically just keep everything else in that episode as is up til then.

So if I were to have a crack at it?

Logan will come bring Dexter water, but order Dexter to the back of his cell first instead (like you are supposed to do). He asks what Dex revealed to Angela the same way. Dex will reveal truthfully his previous identity as Dexter Morgan, that he had been using his experience assisting in Angela's previous investigation on Iris, and that he just found Angela's "missing girls" on her wall and where to go, and that's why she rushed out the door cursing.

Logan will, predictably, immediately demand to know where. Dexter says, you'll find out in a few moments anyway once she gets there and sees for herself, and it's better you hear it from Angela than me. I don't want to be the one to say it. Sorry.

Angela will immediately radio in panicked and crying. Logan answers this time. Angela will do her line as she did normally in the episode. Logan has a different, intense look in his eye when she mentions the words "Caldwell property" while he looks at Dex.

Logan will ask her what to do about Dexter/Jim. She goes - just leave him there in the holding cell and get your ass out here, we can come back in the morning and worry about it then, I have to deal with this first, #### him for now, every unsolved girl off my wall is here. This is what I originally signed up to be a cop for in the first place.

Angela will then call Teddy to report the bodies at the Caldwell cabin as well, that Kurt most likely skipped the F outta town. She tells him that Logan's on his way now for backup so get back to the station to get on the horn, letting the statewide and national authorities know there is a killer on the loose.

Teddy will have the same reaction as he did in the episode, then hightail it back to the station. Arrives back to the station in a huge sweaty fuss. Dexter calls out to him and asks what's going on. Teddy says that Kurt's a killer and on the loose.

Dexter will feign panic, telling Teddy truthfully that Kurt was unusually close to Harrison, even grooming him a little, and that he needs to go see his son right now because clearly they have the wrong man in the cell and he might be after Harrison next.

Teddy will blanch and go, oh ####! Buddy, I do wanna let you out but Angela did say to leave you here til morning, and she's the boss-man so... Look, right after I make a bunch of phone calls I'm going to go sub out for Logan so he can go check on Harrison. That okay?

Dexter will say alright fine thanks after his excuse is a wash, realizing he has to face Batista anyway.

Cut to a shot of Logan & Angela in the bunker comforting each other... she's just shown him Molly's embalmed corpse at the end of the trophy hall.

Dex will have a moment where the audience is faked out by a scene of him luring Teddy in the same way and then murdering the #### out of him, playing out the same way as Logan's in the real episode.

Then reveal that it was just a fantasy (like the Harrison killing the bullies sequence), with the classic house theme playing, and that Dexter still in his cell sullenly watching Teddy in slow motion doing frantic hand-talking as he's calling the authorities with a dry-ass voiceover to match

Teddy comes back to the cell, says OK just called Logan, I'm headed out there to Angela and he's going to come back here and check up on Harrison on the way. I'm sure we'll get you out of here soon, but orders are orders man. Hang on tight, sorry.

Conversation with Deb while he waits. She's trying to convince him to turn himself in as the BHB to protect Harrison.

Logan brings Harrison back to the station to show Dex that he's safe and sound. Lets Dex out of his cuffs momentarily so they can embrace in private. Harrison asks wtf is going on again and Dex will then reveal that the evidence points strongly to Kurt, but Angela still suspects he's the Bay Harbor Butcher.

Neither of them say it but after eye contact, Harrison immediately realizes that his father has to indeed be the one and only BHB. He can't say it since they're in front of Logan, so he says Yeah I know about the background very well, listened to Molly's Merry ####ing Kill episode. Batman-level ####.

Logan asks Dexter how he found out about the murder cabin. Harrison interjects, says he had creepy vibes about Kurt also and wanted to help Dex's 'private investigation' so he offered the drone up as he's a skilled pilot. Logan calms down, says well at least he can fly one better than Teddy.

Logan offers to give Harrison a ride back to Audrey's - Dexter says no.... go get him a room from Tess instead - her mom and my now ex-gf just arrested me off a random note and an obvious evidence-plant and likely put my son in a dangerous position in the sights of a killer that visited her place Christmas morning, and she also put me in a jail cell where I can't protect him, so she can #### off. I can bitch at her in the morning when she comes back to my cell.

Predictably, not much argument from Logan is offered. Goes off and drives Harrison back to the inn.

Timeskip to morning. The authorities have started to arrive at the kill cabin. Angela recieves a call on her cellphone - it's Batista saying hello, who arrived by bus and is having breakfast at the inn, asking where he can find Dextuh.

Angela says he should be still in his holding cell at the police station - I can't come pick you up now, really sorry, I just found the bodies of all those missing girls we talked about at the conference just a few hours ago and one of the old rich white dudes in town probably murdered them all.

Batista says ohhhhh holy ####!! Ok take your time I'll head down there to see Dex myself.

Harrison comes down for breakfast and sees Batista drop his wallet. He picks it up like a good samaritan, excuse me sir you dropped this. Batista says well thank you kid, everyone in this town seems so charming. You from around here? Harrison says no, just got into town recently, been looking for his estranged dad but they've reconciled over the holidays.

This tickles that great big heart of Batista, who smiles and says well great to meet you son, I'm Angel Batista. Just here for some police work for a little bit. What's your name?

Harrison goes nice to meet you Mr Batista, my name is Harrison.
Batista goes, well great to meet you Hawwison. Gotta get going now.
As soon as he turns away he finally clues in (cmon its Batista) on Harrison's identity with the [DEXTUHHHH????] face, but Harrison's already disappeared lol

Cut to the police station for a slo mo scene (with the classic Blood theme) of Logan showing Batista where Dexter's cell is. Archive footage of Doakes doing the "i'm watching you Morgan" fingers here.

Dexter stands up for a poker face face-off with Angel like in the Trinity scene. Deb is behind him as he stands, but disappears in the face off shot.

"Hola, Dex-tuh Morgan." End credits. Announce S02 Monday morning instead of that stupid-ass blu ray nonsense.

Aw man, you had me until there was no ending.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Aw man, you had me until there was no ending.

The emphasis on Batista's name pronunciation almost makes it worth it though. Too bad they couldn't have got him in for a few more episodes.