Climate change and human responsibility

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

There almost enough ice but they want 30 cm before allowing skating.

They run zambonis, etc on the ice. Obviously you could skate safely at way less than 30 cm of ice but you can't maintain it and keep it safe for the public without maintenance equipment being on it.

[Matata]

I came across an interesting map that gives live updates on the carbon intensity of various electricity grids across the globe. Also shows proportion of electricity from renewables or low carbon sources.

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map

Alberta has actually dropped it's carbon intensity by 50% in the last 10 years and plans to shave off an additional 50% once AB completes the transition from coal to natural gas.

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[blankall]

Originally Posted by Matata

I came across an interesting map that gives live updates on the carbon intensity of various electricity grids across the globe. Also shows proportion of electricity from renewables or low carbon sources.

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map

Alberta has actually dropped it's carbon intensity by 50% in the last 10 years and plans to shave off an additional 50% once AB completes the transition from coal to natural gas.

I'm assuming this would not include most of the output from the petroleum industry, as that would be coming from burning fossil fuels, as opposed to electricity from a grid.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by blankall

I'm assuming this would not include most of the output from the petroleum industry, as that would be coming from burning fossil fuels, as opposed to electricity from a grid.

It has nothing to do with the petroleum industry. It's the total amount of GHG produced to deliver electricity to the end user within the grid (expressed as equivalent carbon units, gCO₂eq/kWh). It would include the GHG emissions associated with extracting the fuel source (e: it does not include extraction, my bad).

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Matata

I came across an interesting map that gives live updates on the carbon intensity of various electricity grids across the globe. Also shows proportion of electricity from renewables or low carbon sources.

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map

Alberta has actually dropped it's carbon intensity by 50% in the last 10 years and plans to shave off an additional 50% once AB completes the transition from coal to natural gas.

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This is so cool. Thanks!

[TherapyforGlencross]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Interesting climate change article from a trusted news source.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1596228897796132864

No comment on the viruses part, but the article was not misleading regarding the thawing of permafrost.

Due to climate warming, irreversibly thawing permafrost is releasing organic matter frozen for up to a million years, most of which decomposes into carbon dioxide and methane, further enhancing the greenhouse effect,” the study’s authors wrote.

Methane Seeps have been recorded in Alaska and the Yukon. Mass wasting via retrogressive thaw slumps (likely driven by increased precipitation) are also heavy issues in western Arctic, contributing to the change in the Arctic carbon and geomorphologic cycle. Check it out, it’s fascinating stuff. Antoni Lewkowicz is a great scholarly author headlining some of the research behind RTS.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

This is so cool. Thanks!

For reference, the carbon intensity of just consuming natural gas is ~180 gCO₂eq/kWh (or 53 gCO₂eq/MBtu).

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Matata

For reference, the carbon intensity of just consuming natural gas is ~180 gCO₂eq/kWh (or 53 gCO₂eq/MBtu).

I think that's assuming 100% efficiency as the best estimates I can find are 200-400 for home heating. And that's not including the gCO2 of methane escape.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I think that's assuming 100% efficiency as the best estimates I can find are 200-400 for home heating. And that's not including the gCO2 of methane escape.

It's for delivered energy to the building. A cruddy old furnace could have an combustion efficiency as low as 50-60%: 180/0.5=360 + misc losses (leaks, pilot light, etc.) easily gets you to 400. Electricity is a bit different in that it basically operates at 100% efficiency once it's delivered to the building.

Source (it's outdated for electricity but NG rates are stable): https://www.energystar.gov/buildings...-source-energy

e: I took another look and GHG from extracting the fuel source are not included in these numbers (so methane leak during natural gas extraction is really going to skew that number). I must have remembered wrong. These numbers are often used to make cases for reducing emissions and you make a better argument with higher emission rates. Then again, actually pinning down the fuel extraction GHG emissions is difficult and is a different kind of problem to solve.

[Mathgod]

Moving a conversation we were having in the technologies thread to this thread...

Originally Posted by Azure

Interesting that nobody is talking about the carbon emissions question.

We're at what, 0.03 per cent CO2 per tonne with the newest Canadian LNG projects? Can we go lower? And if we can, doesn't that then change the 'we must move away from fossil fuels' debate?

Originally Posted by Mathgod

"Nobody is talking about it" because it's a question that was answered long ago. The target is zero carbon emissions. Therefore yes we must move away from fossil fuels as quickly as we feasibly can. But it won't happen overnight. Is there room for NG use during the transition? Absolutely.

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

As long as your thoughtful and prepared about the consequences of that.

Originally Posted by Mathgod

A response like this makes it clear to me that you are not aware of what warming of more than 2 degrees C would mean for humanity.

The economic consequences of doing what is necessary to prevent that level of warming will suck. But they'll pale in comparison of the consequences of blowing past that level of warming.

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Well, fill me in.

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Spoiler!

Originally Posted by Mathgod

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2865/a...atures-matter/

https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/syr/figures/

Here's what also worries me. Recent refugee crises (Syria, Ukraine, and others) have led to the rise of far-right reactionary heads of state around the world such as Trump, Bolsonaro, etc. What will the reaction be when the number of refugees increases by an order of magnitude? We're probably looking at social upheaval and violence on a scale that we haven't seen in our lifetimes (or maybe ever).

And there could be diseases frozen in permafrost that we don't even know about that could be unleashed on the world once the ice melts.

Originally Posted by Leondros

Man I hope you stretched before making such a large leap. Let’s stick to facts rather than wild speculation and what-if scenarios especially when there is more than enough misinformation surrounding this topic coming from both sides of the camp. I think Street Pharmacists illustration answered the topic pretty clearly. These are all based on modeling so always subject to change as well depending on inputs and assumptions used.

The two links I posted show projections that are based on a collaboration of the best science on the matter that's available on planet Earth. If they can be flippantly written off as "speculation", then so can just about anything on any topic. I don't think it's reasonable to write things off as "wild speculation" when they are, in fact, projections that are based on things that scientists do know about the physical world.

Street Pharmacist's illustration gave a quick summary of what will happen to wildlife and the environment, but it didn't delve into what will the impacts on humanity actually be.

The question of climate refugees is not speculative - it will with complete certainty happen, due to increased flooding, more intense storms, heat waves, and droughts wiping out crops, and some areas of the planet simply becoming too hot to live in. The amount of human suffering will be immense and it's only a question of how immense it will be. The part about far-right-wing figures rising to power in reaction to migration crises is also not speculation - it's stuff that already has happened and continues to happen.

The part about diseases trapped in permafrost I'll admit is somewhat speculative, but it's not baseless speculation; there are scientists out there who have already found some diseases from melted permafrost and believe there could be more threats to come, including potentially unknown threats. https://news.climate.columbia.edu/20...ng-permafrost/

If we always wait for perfect, full, complete information before taking action to protect ourselves from potential dangers, we're never going to get around to actually protecting ourselves from anything. Just look at the decades of feet-dragging and head-burying that has led us to the mess we're currently in regarding climate change. Pretending that a problem isn't real doesn't make it go away...

[Azure]

Lets talk lawn mowers & leaf blowers, because this is crazy.

Each weekend, about 54 million Americans mow their lawns, using 800 million gallons of gas per year and producing tons of air pollutants. Garden equipment engines, which have had unregulated emissions until the late 1990's, emit high levels of carbon monoxide, volatile organic compounds and nitrogen oxides, producing up to 5% of the nation's air pollution and a good deal more in metropolitan areas.

According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), a new gas powered lawn mower produces volatile organic compounds and nitrogen oxides emissions air pollution in in in one hour of operation as 11 new cars each being driven for one hour.

https://www.peoplepoweredmachines.co...nvironment.htm

Regulators and clean-air advocates are increasingly eyeing the pollution emitted by small gasoline engines used to power lawn mowers and leaf blowers as they seek to blunt climate change. Environmentalists say using a commercial gas leaf blower for an hour produces emissions equal to driving from Denver to Los Angeles.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...e/11746893002/

Someone want to explain to me why gas powered mowers & blowers haven't been made illegal to sell?

I know lawns are kinda dumb to begin with, and there are WAY more environmentally friendly ways to have a nice yard, but fact is we have lots of lawns, people mow their lawn a lot, gas powered lawn mowers are ridiculous when it comes to emitting CO2, and there are dozens of viable electric versions available.

To me this is like the florescent light bulb argument. LEDs are better. But without creating incentives and laws to push people towards them, change happens slower than we might think.

And yes I was looking into a new lawn mower, and found it surprising that its pretty easy & cheap to buy a electric mower.

[btimbit]

Battery powered mower was the best thing I've purchased in the last few years. Even just selfishly, forgetting the noise and emissions, it's also just so much lighter and easier to use

[Fuzz]

Each weekend, about 54 million Americans mow their lawns, using 800 million gallons of gas per year

Does this make sense? I use about a gallon per summer mowing, and I've got a reasonably sized yard(not tiny). This would mean they are each using ~15x more fuel than I am.


I'll get an electric mower when it makes sense, but I'm not going to throw out a perfectly good mower. Gas leaf blowers, however, should be banned for noise alone.

[1qqaaz]

Getting an electric mower was the worst decision I ever made. The batteries are expensive, drain quickly, and easily overheat. I've spent way more on batteries and replacement batteries than on the mower itself. The mower lacks the power to go through thick areas. I go through at least 3 batteries when I mow a 0.26 acre lot, and can only mow if the grass is dry and the temperature is below 75 degrees. Th mower/batteries are Greenworks brand.

[MoneyGuy]

I love my battery-operated mower. I’ve used one for >30 years. I have a huge yard, too.

[chedder]

Love my battery electric mower. Ryobi 40volt. Was cheap and on sale when I bought it. Big lot. It actually powers up through thick grass where the old gas would bog. Light and easy to maneuver. Could easily do two full cuts on a charge. Best lawnmower I've had. Bonus, kids ca easily handle it.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Getting an electric mower was the worst decision I ever made. The batteries are expensive, drain quickly, and easily overheat. I've spent way more on batteries and replacement batteries than on the mower itself. The mower lacks the power to go through thick areas. I go through at least 3 batteries when I mow a 0.26 acre lot, and can only mow if the grass is dry and the temperature is below 75 degrees. Th mower/batteries are Greenworks brand.

I think you have a crappy one. We have an average yard and can mow and trim on one battery, though I bought a back up anyways. Ryobi 40v system for us. Been working for 6 years now

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I think you have a crappy one. We have an average yard and can mow and trim on one battery, though I bought a back up anyways. Ryobi 40v system for us. Been working for 6 years now

I think Ryobi is a much better brand than Greenworks.

[Bill Bumface]

Buying a Greenworks mower and complaining is like buying a Lada and declaring all gas powered cars are crap.

[kevman]

IMO corded mowers are the best. They're cheaper and lighter than battery powered mowers and don't have any of the hassle of a gas powered mower. Win win.