Climate change and human responsibility

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Azure

That is an unfair comparison. Alberta oil jobs are being lost not because OIL is being replaced, but because our government didn't have the foresight to make sure our biggest resource can find its way to the market.

And no, oil is NOT scaling down. I don't even know where you are getting that information from. The issue in Saudi Arabia showed exactly how worldwide demand works.

Are you sure that lack of foresight was about that or about the fact that the economy should be diversified to absorb a blow to one commodity-based sector? You know, those commodities that have significant price swings on a nearly constant basis? Nobody should have expected oil to stay around $100 a barrel.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...pid=2010000201

Lumps trucks, vans, suv's and minvans, but ok. Alberta is 16% cars, 84% "light trucks" and Ontario is 29% cars, 68% "light trucks."

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Are you sure that lack of foresight was about that or about the fact that the economy should be diversified to absorb a blow to one commodity-based sector? You know, those commodities that have significant price swings on a nearly constant basis? Nobody should have expected oil to stay around $100 a barrel.

Bad take and ignorant of the economics of oil.

Is the owner of the world's third largest deposits of oil supposed to get out of that business at a time when demand for the product continues to grow? Alberta crude is competitive at North American & world prices, just not at a 40-50% discount from those prices. Perfect facts to back this up is Alberta oil companies cash flows before and after curtailment. WTI and brent prices are lower in 2019 than 2018, but Alberta companies have generated more cash in 2019. The problem with curtailment is that volumes are constrained and new production and the investment and jobs that it entails are not being created. Bad government policies = huge discount to world/north american prices.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Azure

That is an unfair comparison. Alberta oil jobs are being lost not because OIL is being replaced, but because our government didn't have the foresight to make sure our biggest resource can find its way to the market.

And no, oil is NOT scaling down. I don't even know where you are getting that information from. The issue in Saudi Arabia showed exactly how worldwide demand works.

... I’m clearly talking about jobs. You don’t know anyone in Alberta who lost their oil and gas job? Are you kidding me??? Isn’t there an estimated 10,000+ oil and gas jobs predicted to be lost this year?

I specifically state in the post you quoted that oil and gas isn’t going away completely. You talk about foresight, and I’m concerned about a commodity that the worlds economy isn’t going to use in its existing capacity forever. Foresight is planning for that.

Sell it all as quick as we can and invest in nuclear energy.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Lumps trucks, vans, suv's and minvans, but ok. Alberta is 16% cars, 84% "light trucks" and Ontario is 29% cars, 68% "light trucks."

With a bit of work, it may be helpful to see get each "Light truck" and "Truck" category purchases against the total sales as a fraction, as well as identify Light Truck/Truck purchases on a provincial per capita comparison. Obviously provinces with more people have greater volume of sales. This way we may be able to see how many "light trucks/trucks" are being purchases per person, per province (average).

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Are you sure that lack of foresight was about that or about the fact that the economy should be diversified to absorb a blow to one commodity-based sector? You know, those commodities that have significant price swings on a nearly constant basis? Nobody should have expected oil to stay around $100 a barrel.

Can you please stop spreading this garbage "$100 a barrel expectation" BS?

Noone cares about the price of oil here. It could be $200 and it wouldn't make a difference because we have no pipelines to get it anywhere.

Right now, 100% of our issues is because our government cannot approve a pipeline properly. Not because of the price of oil.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by troutman

Is this really a thing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Green_Wall

Spoiler!

Didn't they do something like this in Iceland (on a smaller scale), to stop the spread of the ash over the countryside?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

With a bit of work, it may be helpful to see get each "Light truck" and "Truck" category purchases against the total sales as a fraction, as well as identify Light Truck/Truck purchases on a provincial per capita comparison. Obviously provinces with more people have greater volume of sales. This way we may be able to see how many "light trucks/trucks" are being purchases per person, per province (average).

I didn't bother with per capita becuase I converted to percentage of sales. The truck category includes the light truck(and all it includes), so it isn't that useful.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Noone cares about the price of oil here.

This is not true. Especially when we have limited pipeline capacity.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I didn't bother with per capita becuase I converted to percentage of sales. The truck category includes the light truck(and all it includes), so it isn't that useful.

Why is it not useful? SUV, Minivan and truck sales fall into both the Light Truck and Truck categories. These are, for the most part, generally larger vehicles than passenger cars and therefore consume more gas / use more energy.

Are you looking to get more specific for a type of vehicle?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Why is it not useful? SUV, Minivan and truck sales fall into both the Light Truck and Truck categories. These are, for the most part, generally larger vehicles than passenger cars and therefore consume more gas / use more energy.

Are you looking to get more specific for a type of vehicle?

Yes, the truck category doesn't provide any insight on SUV's, which is what we were discussing. So subtracting light truck from truck just leaves you with "not-light truck".

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Yes, the truck category doesn't provide any insight on SUV's, which is what we were discussing. So subtracting light truck from truck just leaves you with "not-light truck".

Mutas post you responded to wrote “trucks and SUVs”.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

This is not true. Especially when we have limited pipeline capacity.

Even if WTI goes to $200, WCS will linger far below that (with drastically increased differential).

The current pricing is enough to sustain the industry, if we could get that pricing. That's what I mean when I say noone cares about oil prices - we just need to get it to market.

Of course $200 oil will have some benefit to us, but there still won't be any new major projects started until we can get some pipelines done. It'd be what's happening now - an oil boom in the entire world except for western canada.

We don't need $100 oil (though it'd be nice) - we are struggling not because oil is "only" $60, we are struggling because of lack of pipelines.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

...

Sell it all as quick as we can and invest in nuclear energy.

This is my preference.

Make hay while the sun shines. Invest in the future, whether that's in green technology, infrastructure, education, or anything else that our politicians want to mortgage our future on.

The world will continue to consume 100mm barrels of oil a day for a long time... Some of that might as well be Canadian oil, by Canadian companies, that pay Canadian royalties and Canadian workers that pay Canadian income taxes.

I still like to think of Canada as one of the "good guys". Leaving Canadian resources stranded in the ground will do less than zero to fight climate change. Instead, if we should be displacing some of those "bad guy" barrels... I don't exactly envision a producer like Saudi to be re-investing their oil proceeds in clean tech or other green R&D initiatives.

Future Canadians will shake their heads at the billions and billions of dollars we left in the ground "for them", while the struggle to service the debts we leave them.

[Fuzz]

sigh..


Light trucks: include minivans, sport-utility vehicles, light trucks and vans.


Trucks: Trucks include minivans, sport-utility vehicles, light and heavy trucks, vans and buses.


So the light trucks category includes F150's and the like, the numbers we are interested in. There is also only a difference of 40 000 or so across Canada in those 2 numbers, so again, it isn't very useful to subtract one from the other.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

sigh..


Light trucks: include minivans, sport-utility vehicles, light trucks and vans.


Trucks: Trucks include minivans, sport-utility vehicles, light and heavy trucks, vans and buses.


So the light trucks category includes F150's and the like, the numbers we are interested in. There is also only a difference of 40 000 or so across Canada in those 2 numbers, so again, it isn't very useful to subtract one from the other.

So we can just stick with the anecdotal evidence that every driveway in my neighbourhood has at least 1 SUV or Truck, and at least half have 2.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

sigh..


Light trucks: include minivans, sport-utility vehicles, light trucks and vans.


Trucks: Trucks include minivans, sport-utility vehicles, light and heavy trucks, vans and buses.


So the light trucks category includes F150's and the like, the numbers we are interested in. There is also only a difference of 40 000 or so across Canada in those 2 numbers, so again, it isn't very useful to subtract one from the other.

Lol

We only care about F-150s? Why is that? Because they have a cab and are hacked up? Bigger engines? More fuel capacity? What's the threshold?

Keep it simple - compared large private household vehicles to smaller household vehicles (in this case, passenger cars). Not sure why you're cherry picking.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by troutman

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fore..._United_States



https://www.fia.fs.fed.us/library/br...actsMetric.pdf

Well fine, I'll say more trees than there have never been in the last 100 years.

I know I am not talking about old growth forests. That is where proper forest management comes in by allocating land for those.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Lol

We only care about F-150s? Why is that? Because they have a cab and are hacked up? Bigger engines? More fuel capacity? What's the yhteshd?

Keep it simple - compared large private household vehicles to smaller household vehicles (in this case, passenger cars). Not sure why you're cherry picking.

I'm not cherry picking anything. These types of stats separate "light trucks" from "trucks" becuase "trucks" are usually the size that are for commercial use, like, busses and tow trucks. I assumed we were discussing personal vehicles, which is why they categorize them like that in the first place. But OK, ya, go ahead and re-run the numbers with the whole 40 000 extra spread across Canada and let me know how significant a change in the percentage that is. Oh? A rounding error? OK, thanks.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

A few things have already been discussed in this thread. She convinced her mom to change her job as it involved international flying. She stopped eating meat. She sailed instead of flying to NY to make her speech. I'm sure there's more.

She didn't scream at the top of her lungs.

Those things are dumb, and her ideas are dumb. In fact everything she has said is dumb. The fact that she gets media attention is dumb.

Not eating meat? Not flying? How dense does one have to be to see that isn't going to make a bloody difference.

The debate around this subject amazes me. The fact that seemingly intelligent people caught up in this short-sighted and completely stupid approaches is BEYOND me.

Our planet is SO screwed if this keeps up.