Practice notes Feb 2nd: new PP units?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamefan1

I've thought we should have Stone on the point since early in the season. He may not have be scoring Faso far this Eason, but his shot sure looked great after the trade deadline last year and he potted some nice goals. He is the only Flames defenseman with a hard slap shot from the point and I Fully believe he can improve the success of the pp. it may not always be from his slap shot, but more often the rebounds from his shots. This will totally change look and I believe the success of the pp. The wimpy wrist shots that the current pp defensemen are easily cleared, but not so easily from a hard slap shot from the point.

The rebounds from Stone's shots have all been from the covering forward's shin pads or the ends boards as the puck exits the zone.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but is this really the first time they've tried putting their 5 best players on the same unit? I mean isn't that one of the first things you try on Day 1?

Gaudreau makes the plays, Monahan shoots, Tkachuk mucks it up in front of the net. And the two best all-around d-men on the back. Duh?

You'd think. But clearly dispersing and diluting the talent on each line is more fun!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Absolutely I do. Pressure changes everything and coaches are adjusting pressure to counter GG’s system in all three zones. The Flames seem to have one mode and if they can get ahead then they likely excel (except for the fact they’ve been getting ahead and still losing for 7 games straight now? 8? Can’t remember, nor do I want to). What these adjustments are? I dunno..

Point is, GG is getting outcoached in almost every area of the game and you can see it..

Sorry man all this is proof of is that you don't like Gulutzan and will find his fault in every human mistake element in hockey.

Frolik wasn't under direct pressure.
Giordano backed in too far
The goalie let in three short side shots made by players who didn't have the room to get off a better shot and just took the weak one.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Sorry man all this is proof of is that you don't like Gulutzan and will find his fault in every human mistake element in hockey.

Frolik wasn't under direct pressure.
Giordano backed in too far
The goalie let in three short side shots made by players who didn't have the room to get off a better shot and just took the weak one.

I have to disagree. It shows the exact opposite in my opinion. The fact i’m paying attention to teams that play the Flames and notice what they are doing differently than GG and his staff, suggests i’m Looking for other reasons than the fact that GG is simply not good enough at this level, but unfortunately I keep coming back to GG and his staff simply not being good enough.

From situation to situations, game preparedness and willingness to adjust or adapt is what I am looking at here and seeing no evidence of it.

Frolik may not have been under pressure on the play that he went to throw it towards the goal line for a defender or perhaps use Smith as an outlet, but that is equally a coaching error as it is a brain fart from Frolik.

Frolik’s error was pretty bad, but the flames turn a tonne of pucks over at both blue lines and turnovers at the blue line are killers. But the entire flames system for a breakout is built around a pass from the defensive half boards to the middle and then a pass into the neutral zone. It’s a recipe for disaster as all another coach has to do is recognize when the carrier is goin to pass across the blue line or try and skate it out from their own end, layer the forecheck into a 1-1-2-1 or a 1-1-3 forecheck but push up to the blue line and it causes immense pressure on the Flames breakout, because of its predicatability. This is what happened to Frolik and he panicked, uncharacteristicly, but none the less.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I have to disagree. It shows the exact opposite in my opinion. The fact i’m paying attention to teams that play the Flames and notice what they are doing differently than GG and his staff, suggests i’m Looking for other reasons than the fact that GG is simply not good enough at this level, but unfortunately I keep coming back to GG and his staff simply not being good enough.

From situation to situations, game preparedness and willingness to adjust or adapt is what I am looking at here and seeing no evidence of it.

Frolik may not have been under pressure on the play that he went to throw it towards the goal line for a defender or perhaps use Smith as an outlet, but that is equally a coaching error as it is a brain fart from Frolik.

Frolik’s error was pretty bad, but the flames turn a tonne of pucks over at both blue lines and turnovers at the blue line are killers. But the entire flames system for a breakout is built around a pass from the defensive half boards to the middle and then a pass into the neutral zone. It’s a recipe for disaster as all another coach has to do is recognize when the carrier is goin to pass across the blue line or try and skate it out from their own end, layer the forecheck into a 1-1-2-1 or a 1-1-3 forecheck but push up to the blue line and it causes immense pressure on the Flames breakout, because of its predicatability. This is what happened to Frolik and he panicked, uncharacteristicly, but none the less.

Sorry man not that convincing.

You haven't explained what adjustment the other teams have made to get Frolik to brain fart and Smith to become a sieve.

Is that still coming or have you moved on to blue line turnovers and the break out?

If you're paying so much attention you shouldn't have an issue with explaining what the adjustments and consequences are.

Meanwhile I'll just rely on little things like facts ... shots, shot attempts, scoring chances and continue on my way not paying attention.

[GullFoss]

I have to agree with Bingo. It's really hard to criticise GG for his 5-on-5 and PK tactics. The flames generally look solid 5-on-5, and they have been for the past 30 games or so. The PK is still a bit passive for my liking, but the results are there, so hard to argue.

In my view, that leaves three fair avenues for which to criticise GG:

1) Inability to react well to the "game within the game" - things like not calling the timeout after Vegas scored the tying goal, and having Brouwer out for that overtime PK to take defensive zone faceoffs.

2) A terrible PP - no commentary required. The buck stops with the coach and special teams was the reason Hartley was fired.

3) The inability to prepare his team for big games - see the sweep by Anahiem, seven straight losses to oilers, etc.

In my view, #1 and #3 are different, but contain similar elements - GG lacks the physiological toolkit that top-tier coaches need. It also isnt visible through the basics advanced stats that get thrown around because many of the break-downs are highly contextual (ie - hard to isolate statistically). But because context is better understood by humans than by statistical tests, the eye test is a much better tool. And its why I ultimately disagree with Bingo's conclusions while agreeing with much of his analysis.

For #2, I think a lot of the blame lies with GG and Treliving and bad luck. GG because not willing to take advantage of high quality point shots in Gio, Hamilton, Stone (ie - have the PP system fit the players rather than try to use players than fit the system). Treliving because lack of quality right handed shots really limits the ability of the PP. And bad luck because of Versteeg injury.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I have to agree with Bingo. It's really hard to criticise GG for his 5-on-5 and PK tactics. The flames generally look solid 5-on-5, and they have been for the past 30 games or so. The PK is still a bit passive for my liking, but the results are there, so hard to argue.

Eh, we're 13-17 in the last 30 games. Our special teams might not be great, but they're only 17th and 23rd in the league. Not THAT big of a difference maker.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Itse

Eh, we're 13-17 in the last 30 games. Our special teams might not be great, but they're only 17th and 23rd in the league. Not THAT big of a difference maker.

I feel in this case it is. During this losing skid, there's at least 4 games where a PP goal would've made the difference. And then they would be 17-13 instead.

Even strength, the team overall has been okay. Could be better, but it has given the team a chance each game; save from the past two games breakdowns. And the PK has been as good as you could ask for it to be over the past couple of months.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I feel in this case it is. During this losing skid, there's at least 4 games where a PP goal would've made the difference. And then they would be 17-13 instead.

I actually recently combed through the whole season looking for games where special teams clearly made the difference. What I was looking for was a team getting more PP goals than the other, and that difference in goals being decisive in the end result.

So, let's assume the Flames tie these games in special team goals during the stretch you mentioned, and see what difference it makes.

Dec. 6th: we lose the game in regulation @ Toronto
Dec 14th: game goes to OT vs. SJ
Dec 29th: game goes to OT @ Anaheim
Jan 22nd: we lose the game in regulation vs. Buffalo
Jan 24th: game goes to OT vs. LA

So really special teams helped us about us much as they hurt us. That 13-17 might realistically be 14-16 or 15-15 with better special teams, and we have 1-4 points more. But 17-13 is way off.

Btw, I realize you didn't mean it that 30 game stretch as a precise number so not really going to hold this against you, but the first 10 games of that stretch was probably one of the defensive low points of the season. 6 ES goals against @ Dallas, 4 vs. Toronto, 7 versus Edmonton and 4 vs. Philly... Yikes.