Practice notes Feb 2nd: new PP units?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I agree with this. I find he loses some of his creativity when locked into the set structure of a powerplay and doens't seem to be able to really get things going.

I have also noticed that when the puck starts moving around quickly or a loose puck is retrieved, he often makes unexpected passes, which would turn out brilliantly, except his teammates are often not ready for his super quick or unexpected pass and then they slow things down again or find themselves off balance and not ready to shoot quickly.

There in lies the problem, being locked into a system that does not maximize his creativity.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by redforever

There in lies the problem, being locked into a system that does not maximize his creativity.

But I'm not sure if his type of playmaking skills are best suited to any PP in the league. He works best when there's maximum movement and borderline chaos. No team in the NHL operates a PP that is designed to mimic 5v5 play. Everybody employs a system with more or less set positions for each player on the ice. Don't think anyone would design a PP where one guy plays rover, which I think would help Johnny.

All that being said, he's not awful on the PP. I just agree with jiri (that is jiri right?) Johnny's skills are best suited for transitional play.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

But I'm not sure if his type of playmaking skills are best suited to any PP in the league. He works best when there's maximum movement and borderline chaos. No team in the NHL operates a PP that is designed to mimic 5v5 play. Everybody employs a system with more or less set positions for each player on the ice. Don't think anyone would design a PP where one guy plays rover, which I think would help Johnny.

All that being said, he's not awful on the PP. I just agree with jiri (that is jiri right?) Johnny's skills are best suited for transitional play.

Johnny’s skills should translate to a PP though. Vision, soft hands, accurate passing. The player and coaches need to figure this out although it’s not like he’s bad on the PP as you say. Other than not having a hard shot, his skills should work.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

5 on zero. Hope they potted a few.

Probably not.

[Johnny Makarov]

How crappy is your pp when Rich Preston's looks like the 89 Flames pp?

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

What systematic changes did those coaches make?

I need to breakdown and analyze exactly what the other coaches did to change the game in their favour? The fact that they did isn’t good enough? C’mon?

If you need proof, and I already pointed this out in the PGT of th VGK game that Gallant is seen talking to Kelly during the 2nd period pointing to things on the ice he is seeing and Kelly nods and goes over and starts talking to the players. Shortly after that the momentum swung in VGK’s favour. Says to me that he made an adjustment that worked. Is he the only coach who has done that against GG’s system? I doubt it.

Edit: is GG clueing in during the game and making changes to counter the adjustment? Nope. That’s called adjusting on the fly or the game within the game or whatever... but GG and the flames as a whole don’t have that going for them.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I need to breakdown and analyze exactly what the other coaches did to change the game in their favour? The fact that they did isn’t good enough? C’mon?

If you need proof, and I already pointed this out in the PGT of th VGK game that Gallant is seen talking to Kelly during the 2nd period pointing to things on the ice he is seeing and Kelly nods and goes over and starts talking to the players. Shortly after that the momentum swung in VGK’s favour. Says to me that he made an adjustment that worked. Is he the only coach who has done that against GG’s system? I doubt it.

Edit: is GG clueing in during the game and making changes to counter the adjustment? Nope. That’s called adjusting on the fly or the game within the game or whatever... but GG and the flames as a whole don’t have that going for them.

I think games swing for all sorts of reasons, including in-game adjustments but also momentum based on what's happening. Teams trailing push, teams protecting tend to sit back.
I don't think it is realistic to suggest that some teams adjust and some teams don't. I think all teams make adjustments during the game based on what's happening - some more than other.
But I also don't think the game necessarily turned on that.

Basically I find it weird that you attribute what happened in the game to an adjustment you can't even describe.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

I think games swing for all sorts of reasons, including in-game adjustments but also momentum based on what's happening. Teams trailing push, teams protecting tend to sit back.
I don't think it is realistic to suggest that some teams adjust and some teams don't. I think all teams make adjustments during the game based on what's happening - some more than other.
But I also don't think the game necessarily turned on that.

Basically I find it weird that you attribute what happened in the game to an adjustment you can't even describe.

Lol

I find it hilarious that you admit there are coaching adjustments made throughout games for a variety of reasons but are questioning me on pointing that out that other coaches are making adjustments to counter GG’s system during the game (which is obvious) but yet you are calling me out on what those adjustments are... as you said, there are so many throughout a game, how am I supposed to be able to tell you exactly which adjustment actually made the difference? Obviously something changed with the oppositions system to make the Flames fall apart.

Or is it simply that the flames are so fragile that nothing changes within the game and they just fall apart?

I feel like this is a troll job aiming to start an argument..

[Jiri Hrdina]

You are assuming the game changes because of a systematic adjustment. I’m asking you how you know that when you can’t even describe that adjustment?
Not calling you out. Having a debate

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Lol

I find it hilarious that you admit there are coaching adjustments made throughout games for a variety of reasons but are questioning me on pointing that out that other coaches are making adjustments to counter GG’s system during the game (which is obvious) but yet you are calling me out on what those adjustments are... as you said, there are so many throughout a game, how am I supposed to be able to tell you exactly which adjustment actually made the difference? Obviously something changed with the oppositions system to make the Flames fall apart.

Or is it simply that the flames are so fragile that nothing changes within the game and they just fall apart?

I feel like this is a troll job aiming to start an argument..

You think a system change by the opposition made Frolik pass the puck to Smith? For Giordano to be flat footed on a one on one? Or for Smith to give up three straight weakside dribblers?

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Lol

I find it hilarious that you admit there are coaching adjustments made throughout games for a variety of reasons but are questioning me on pointing that out that other coaches are making adjustments to counter GG’s system during the game (which is obvious) but yet you are calling me out on what those adjustments are... as you said, there are so many throughout a game, how am I supposed to be able to tell you exactly which adjustment actually made the difference? Obviously something changed with the oppositions system to make the Flames fall apart.

Or is it simply that the flames are so fragile that nothing changes within the game and they just fall apart?

I feel like this is a troll job aiming to start an argument..

I think he was saying adjustments are made by all teams all the time... it's part of the game. You said that Tampa and Vegas made an adjustment, the Flames did not know how to cope with it and that is why they lost. I think it is absolutely fair to ask you what the specific adjustment was that lead to Vegas and Tampa turning the game around.

[genetic_phreek]

No second unit reports yet? Maybe Brodie and/or Stone is traded.

Benny - Janko - Ferly
Kulak - ?

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You think a system change by the opposition made Frolik pass the puck to Smith? For Giordano to be flat footed on a one on one? Or for Smith to give up three straight weakside dribblers?

Absolutely I do. Pressure changes everything and coaches are adjusting pressure to counter GG’s system in all three zones. The Flames seem to have one mode and if they can get ahead then they likely excel (except for the fact they’ve been getting ahead and still losing for 7 games straight now? 8? Can’t remember, nor do I want to). What these adjustments are? I dunno..

Point is, GG is getting outcoached in almost every area of the game and you can see it..

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I think he was saying adjustments are made by all teams all the time... it's part of the game. You said that Tampa and Vegas made an adjustment, the Flames did not know how to cope with it and that is why they lost. I think it is absolutely fair to ask you what the specific adjustment was that lead to Vegas and Tampa turning the game around.

I would have to go back and watch and try and read lips to see what was actually said.. I’m not about to. GG talking to Kelly at the end of the 2nd or early 3rd and then Cooper having a chat with Kucherov on the bench during the 2nd..

Could be ass simple as Cooper calling Kucherov a $**t head or saying something about what players on the other team are doing when he has puck.. who knows..

I see it happening on other benches and then games changing. I don’t see it happening on the flames bench and the flames lose... coincidence?!? Who knows..

[savardandjokinen]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

No second unit reports yet? Maybe Brodie and/or Stone is traded.

Benny - Janko - Ferly
Kulak - ?

Kulak is on pace for like 8 points I'd rather not

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

Kulak is on pace for like 8 points I'd rather not

Stone is on pace for 5 points. I don't see Kulak as such a bad idea to at least try for a few games.

[savardandjokinen]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Stone is on pace for 5 points. I don't see Kulak as such a bad idea to at least try for a few games.

He has also scored 36 points before

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

He has also scored 36 points before

Ya. Just saying what's the worst that could happen. And the other options aren't offensive juggernauts.

[Flamefan1]

I've thought we should have Stone on the point since early in the season. He may not have be scoring Faso far this Eason, but his shot sure looked great after the trade deadline last year and he potted some nice goals. He is the only Flames defenseman with a hard slap shot from the point and I Fully believe he can improve the success of the pp. it may not always be from his slap shot, but more often the rebounds from his shots. This will totally change look and I believe the success of the pp. The wimpy wrist shots that the current pp defensemen are easily cleared, but not so easily from a hard slap shot from the point.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You think a system change by the opposition made Frolik pass the puck to Smith? For Giordano to be flat footed on a one on one? Or for Smith to give up three straight weakside dribblers?

Hypnosis?