Edmonton is No Good VI: Chia•den•freu•de

[Burner]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Since that article, the Oilers are: 57 - 60 - 9 (23rd), 20th in GF, 25th in GA. McLellan has been fired (very unceremoniously), Chiarelli has re-established himself as the worst GM in the NHL, and the Oilers are again (remain) the laughing stock of the league.

Decade of Darkness, lol... they aren't even close to emerging into the light.

the light at the end of the tunnel - was that DAMN train again!!!!

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

So basically you agree with me.... that the problem with the Stampeders back then was very similar to the problems with the Oilers today - mainly that the problem initially started at the top and spread downward, and the solution is to cure the head and not to cut off countless feet.


Now... I wasn't concentrating on the micro details of the Stamps that you certainly know more about than me, and I wasn't suggesting that it was the Flames Ownership Group that was the savior here. My point was, that a team that the owner treats like a toy for him and his family - where he hires not based on merit but based on some relationship (family, friend, or pure past idolization)... it's just not good.


Clearly Lowe and MacTavish aren't good hockey team managers.. the proof is in the Oilers. Because they were good players, doesn't necessarily mean they'd make good coaches - they might, or good general managers - they might. Because they won in one capacity, doesn't make them winners at the others.


Katz could also be great at building a great Oiler's empire, and suck at putting together a winning on ice team - although having a winning team would certainly help build that empire, it's clearly not required in Edmonton as we can see. If Katz realized his shortcomings and just concentrated on what he's good at, and left what he's not to competent people, and not his childhood idols - look out.

I don't disagree with your main point, but your history was still littered with mistakes that needed correcting. You suggested the Stamps were a mess for 5 years and that was followed up by another by saying "at least 5 years" and they stayed that way until the Flames saved them - which is not true at all. It was three years and they were saved by Ted Hellard and his group. Let's give credit where it is due and not exaggerate the one down period the Stamps have had in the last 30 years.

[browna]

You have to wonder how the rebuild versions look if, for one fateful night, April 7 2007 involving our beloved Flames. Indulge me.

Flames are in dogfight with Colorado for last playoff spot. Flames up 3 points with 2 games to go. Flames played the Oilers, and would finish the season off the next night vs Colorado. A Flames loss and Colorado win this night would mean the winner the next night in Colorado makes the playoffs, the loser out. Stressful times as the Avs were making a late charge after winning about 6 games in a row.

Nashville plays Colorado, game starts a couple hours before the 8pm Flames Oilers game here in town. Oilers stink, unsurprisingly after all thier average talent gets big pay days after being the anonomoly of a season prior, within a period of the Stanley Cup the season before. They have a putrid 78 points and are missing the playoffs, as they will for the next 8 seasons.

Flames go up 2-0 in the 2nd, thanks to goals from Nilson and Amonte.

Everyone checking their phones, those who had data plans (and when data worked in the Dome then) 12 years ago. I let out an subtle cheer when saw the score go final in Nashville, 4-2 Preds. Soon after, Flames make it easier for everyone, announcing mid second period that Nashville beat Colorado, and Flames are in playoffs no matter how this game or the next night vs Colorado goes.

Flames, under the overwhelmed Jim Playfair, on almost unbelievable immediate cue, give up 2 goals in remaining part of the second period, and then to noted sniper Patrick Thoreson in the third, and Flames lose 3-2. They also lose vs Colorado the next night to still finish ahead of the Avs by 1 point.

That was the Oilers last game of the year. They end up picking 6 in the draft. Chicago was tied on them with points, but the Oilers had 1 more regulation win then Chicago. That extra regulation win for the Oilers was the Flames literally giving up in the last home game of the season after they realized they made the playoffs mid game, as per above.

The Hawks win the draft lottery from the 5 spot, and draft 1st and pick Kane. Oilers draft Gagne.

So, if the Flames play out the last half of the game (or are forced to play hard if Col best Nsh) vs the Oilers and cruise to the win, the Oilers wouldve finished in the 5th lottery spot, and won yet another draft lottery, picked, and wasted Kane’s talent. Kane would’ve probably gotten in more trouble then just A cab in Buffalo by being frustrated with the idiocy he had to deal with from the Oilers executive.

And then the effect on the rest of the league. Chicago wouldn’t have won the Stanley Cups they did with picking Gagne or Karl Alzner or whoever was around that draft spot. Kane would not have turned into the superstar he did. He would have been wasted as Hall and guys even like Gagne were, with the expectations on those players from Lowe, like just in the glory days, structure or support around them was secondary, rather, expecting those teenage players to just get by in the big faster NHl just on junior talent.

So the league and the city of Chicago,owes the Preds and the Flames, from April 7, 2007, a huge thank you for preventing the Oilers from acquiring and wasting another top overall pick and young talent, and for Chicago, putting a Stanley Cup contender into the city. Hawks would be 10 points better the next year, get to the WCF 2 years later, and then win 2 cups in the next 4 years.

Edmonton remained, as they are now, no good.

[getbak]

The Oilers win saw them leapfrog both Washington and Chicago. If they had lost (and the draft lottery played out exactly the same), the Capitals would have ended up with Kane.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by browna

So the league and the city of Chicago,owes the Preds and the Flames, from April 7, 2007, a huge thank you for preventing the Oilers from acquiring and wasting another top overall pick and young talent, and for Chicago, putting a Stanley Cup contender into the city. Hawks would be 10 points better the next year, get to the WCF 2 years later, and then win 2 cups in the next 4 years.

Edmonton remained, as they are now, no good.

I bet poor Gagner looks at things a bit differently. He could have had an all star career in Chicago if the Flames had won that night. Instead, he was ruined by the Oilers.

[topfiverecords]

It's fun to look at that first round draft of 2007.

The Oilers had 3 first round picks in the draft that lists the names of Voracek (7th), Couture (9th), Sutter (11th), McDonagh (12th), Eller (13th), Shattenkirk (14th), Cole (18th), Pacioretty (22nd), Backlund (24th), Perron (26th), Brendan Smith (27th).

Littered with long term NHLers.

The Oilers took Gagner 6th, Alex Plante 15th, and Riley Nash 21st.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

I bet poor Gagner looks at things a bit differently. He could have had an all star career in Chicago if the Flames had won that night. Instead, he was ruined by the Oilers.

Plus, you know, Cups. And probably money.

Really, his life was ruined. He should sue Edmonton. If they gave Katz all that money surely they'd throw some cash at him too.

Then again, if Edmonton set the precedent of compensating everyone whose life and career they ruined that result would go badly for them.

[drewtastic]

I love it when Scott Oake sends this routine tweet out on nights featuring former or current oilers. The “questions” submitted are nothing short of hilarious.

Worth scrolling down the page to catch some of the more noteworthy ones!

https://twitter.com/scottoake/status...797716480?s=21

(And uh—oh yeah: I “may or may not” have responded to the question of “What’s the best part of playing in edm?” with “Road trips”.)

[Eric Vail]

Anderson: If you worked for the Oilers, what would be your job?
Nurse: If you could play for another NHL team, who would be your first pick?

I hope they pick my questions.

[Boreal]

What the hell is this response?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1084124288066772992

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by nobles_point

What the hell is this response?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1084124288066772992

I couldn't make sense of it either... but sounds like there is some no goodness to uncover.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think you've missed one. The way I see it:

1.0 was the Gagner, Cogliano, Brule, Schremp era, circa 2007-09
2.0 was the Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Omark, Hemsky, Penner era, circa 2010-12
3.0 was the Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yakupov, Schultz dynasty circa 2012-14
4.0 was the McDavid, Hall, Draisaitl, RNH, Klefbom era, circa 1015-19

1.0... "Honestly, I see 600 goals and 1,300 points!"
2.0... Oil Change - here come the Oilers!
3.0... Three #1 overalls - "it isn't a question of if, but how many!"
4.0... McGenerational! "It's a big change in Alberta, and it won't be changing back soon!"

...

That's a pretty good summary. However, it should be illustrated by respective GM's assessments and promises accompanying each rebuild.

Like this one from 2010:

Lowe said the Oilers had a new plan for success, to a certain degree modeled after the Chicago Blackhawks’ ability to build around draft picks Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane. He also plans to hire a general manager based out of Oklahoma City — the franchise’s top minor-league affiliate — who would be in charge of scouting out players other franchises might have missed.
"We’ve got to draft and develop here, more focus on resources spent toward development that will ultimately filter up to our team in Edmonton," Lowe said. "To me, that’s the formula of success. So, that bodes well for Oklahoma City here. We’re definitely going to focus on spending more money on the development side of things."

2013:

"Let me be clear: the Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable and we need to get better immediately," said Kevin Lowe, the Oilers' president of hockey operations. "That starts today with the announcement of Craig MacTavish as general manager and Scott Howson as senior vice-president."

2015:

Sounds like the makings of Rebuild 3.0, but MacTavish says that’s not at all what he’s thinking...
“Right now we’re not good enough and we’re not strong enough or deep enough, but we’re closing in on that,” he said. “As we see this team going into the future, I see the potential of another great Oiler decade.

February, 2018 (before the trade deadline):

“This isn’t really a postmortem,” Chiarelli said of fans having to wait for the Oilers, currently sitting tied for 26th and 27th with the Montreal Canadiens in the 31-team league with 22 games remaining in their season.
“This season has been a tough one and we’ll get into that at the end of the year. I’m not trying to avoid the question because there are some obvious questions.”

All subjectivity aside, in the past 20 years, Edmonton Oilers have been no good for all but one season in 2005-2006, when they had Pronger and, coincidentally, great goal-tending out of Roloson. That is all. One good season.

[Boreal]

Double post

[browna]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

I couldn't make sense of it either... but sounds like there is some no goodness to uncover.

Transcripts from the podcast referenced.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...-ill-be-choked

The three then discussed Hall’s chirp of Glenn Anderson. The former Oilers great would come to Edmonton and party, Whitney said. At one party, Anderson loudly insisted that the only song allowed to be played was Lady Gaga’s Poker Face on repeat. When Hall scored his first game winner, Whitney said, the team was out at a bar drinking afterwards, and met up with Anderson, who had been drinking.

As Whitney recalled it, “He comes up and he’s saying, ‘Hi, congrats on your first game winner. You only got to get 65 more and you can tie me.’ He’s the all-time leader in game-winning goals, whatever the number was. And Hallsy goes, ‘Oh yeah, congratulations on scoring the fourth goal in a 8-3 win in 1985 57 times.”

Said Hall of the incident, “I’m pretty sure that Kevin Lowe called him and told him, ‘Hey, don’t go around the young guys any more.”

[Boreal]

I’m listening to it right now. Sounds like New Jersey is infinitely preferable place to live compared with eDUMPmonton.

I skimmed through & didn’t fully listen.

[The Yen Man]

Whitney mentioned that McDavid didn’t have to experience the bad losing years.

“Dude, I looked at some of the records of the teams I played on in Edmonton, it was like Colorado this year,” Hall said.

Whitney said it’s “awful” to play on such a bad team, then blamed the Oilers’ old boys in management. “Just because you’re an amazing hockey player for a team it means nothing in terms of building a hockey team…. It’s been the Old Boys’ Club forever in Edmonton, for so long. MacTavish is there. It happens so long that people get comfortable. But McDavid’s changed a lot there.”

Guess that observation didn't age very well lol.

[browna]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Guess that observation didn't age very well lol.

It's because Lowe got back in the good books with Katz, a couple years after his demotion when Chia was hired. When things went south the season after the playoff run, Lowe took advantage of a frustrated Katz and said all the right things, and has had his ear since. How else do you explain last year bringing in Coffey as a skills coach? With rumors of him being an actual coach?

The old guard that Spector dangerously (for his career) speculated in being gone in those above tweets, never did get punted outright he just got pushed into the shadows and had his ego bruised. Well, he's and its back now and has been imo since last season, having more influence on the hockey operations then his title suggests (which is none).

[Hockey_Ninja]

I find it hilarious that in Gaskal's latest ATLR that there were Oiler fans complaining about Johnny getting an "empty point" on Monny's empty netter. Like McDavid and Leon haven't racked up empty points in a blow-out games when they were to far back to make a full comeback.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

I find it hilarious that in Gaskal's latest ATLR that there were Oiler fans complaining about Johnny getting an "empty point" on Monny's empty netter. Like McDavid and Leon haven't racked up empty points in a blow-out games when they were to far back to make a full comeback.

You mean in every second Oiler game?

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by browna

Transcripts from the podcast referenced.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...-ill-be-choked

The three then discussed Hall’s chirp of Glenn Anderson. The former Oilers great would come to Edmonton and party, Whitney said. At one party, Anderson loudly insisted that the only song allowed to be played was Lady Gaga’s Poker Face on repeat. When Hall scored his first game winner, Whitney said, the team was out at a bar drinking afterwards, and met up with Anderson, who had been drinking.

As Whitney recalled it, “He comes up and he’s saying, ‘Hi, congrats on your first game winner. You only got to get 65 more and you can tie me.’ He’s the all-time leader in game-winning goals, whatever the number was. And Hallsy goes, ‘Oh yeah, congratulations on scoring the fourth goal in a 8-3 win in 1985 57 times.”

Said Hall of the incident, “I’m pretty sure that Kevin Lowe called him and told him, ‘Hey, don’t go around the young guys any more.”

Hall came off more intelligent and better put together than I expected. I never liked any of his media quotes, but in a more natural environment he's comes off so differently.