Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Jetfire

I certainly would.

Neal = declining
Eriksson = declining
Lucic = done multiple years ago with little/no hope of a turnaround

I am sorry but this is BS. Lucic had 50 points 3 seasons ago... and has outproduced Eriksson in the past 3 years.. 94 to 76 points..and Eriksson is 3 years older. Why I used 3 years? Because that is when both players started their contracts.

If you are calling Lucic done.. then Eriksson is also certainly done.

[bubbsy]

I wish this was a doofus for doofus deal.

The buyout alrernative mismatch and the expansion draft protection issue with lucic make this a flat out win for the oilers.

Lucic fought TWICE last year. This truculence bs is getting annoying from the flames management. They prioritize is but have zero clue on how to build a roster with team toughness.

Oilers fans must be damn happy with their new gm. They finally outright win a deal.

[Saqe]

Trying to make sense of it but can't like it.

Lucic was 100% done with the Oilers. At least Neil had a chance to bounce back (didn't think so myself but many did). Treliving should've at least bent them over if he's helping them.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Obvious statement: time will tell on this.

But would love to hear Treliving ‘s thinking on this. What is he addressing? I assume he thinks change of scenery is good for Lucic but in best case scenario, what does Treliving thinks that looks like?

If the best case is no deterioration but stays like last year, what is ranking on depth chart? 12th best?

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by the2bears

I have seen this a few times. The great thing is if Neal is getting 20 on the top line in Edmonton that means someone else is *not* getting 30-40 there. It's not top-line winger production, and it may make Neal look better but it's not improving Edmonton much if at all.

Thank you! I am glad someone else can also see it from this view.

[icarus]

Jesus.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I wish this was a doofus for doofus deal.

The buyout alrernative mismatch and the expansion draft protection issue with lucic make this a flat out win for the oilers.

Lucic fought TWICE last year. This truculence bs is getting annoying from the flames management. They prioritize is but have zero clue on how to build a roster with team toughness.

Oilers fans must be damn happy with their new gm. They finally outright win a deal.

Fights are happening less and less.. he had 250 hits last year that means something for sure

[topfiverecords]

The longer this goes, the more hope I'm having Treliving is pulling off some wizardry flipping Lucic.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It's amazing how many posters are willing themselves to like this deal, when prior when it was rumoured, most hated it.

As a hockey trade it clearly stinks.

As bad as Neal is, Lucic is quite a bit worse. It's not even debatable.

But Calgary saves cap and money. These days, that's becoming more and more important. As we've seen in the trades to date around the NHL.

And yet, here we are.

[Barca]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I wish this was a doofus for doofus deal.

The buyout alrernative mismatch and the expansion draft protection issue with lucic make this a flat out win for the oilers.

Lucic fought TWICE last year. This truculence bs is getting annoying from the flames management. They prioritize is but have zero clue on how to build a roster with team toughness.

Oilers fans must be damn happy with their new gm. They finally outright win a deal.

I was just over at hfboards oil and they are very happy.

I'm just shocked Pulju isn't part of the deal.

[united]

Of course subject to change pending the retention, possible conditional pick, and especially the expansion draft impact...but this is assuming it's the 10% retention, a mid-round pick with reasonably achievable conditions, and Lucic is eligible for exposure:

Overall I don't completely hate this move. For either team.
What we know is that James Neal is a far better finisher than Milan Lucic, but Milan Lucic is a better two-way player and brings the physical element. We also know that neither of the two are playing in the top six on this Calgary Flames team. The kicker, to me, could be Lucic's penalty differential blackhole.

Given Neal relies on his teammates to get him the puck in order to exploit his phenomenal release, he is a poor fit in the bottom six of any team. On a non-playoff team like the Oilers, he will get the opportunity to play in the top six and possibly with McDavid dishing to him. He can camp in open areas and fire away, of course only when the Oilers have the puck in the offensive zone which won't be very often especially when factoring in his ineffectivness in the defensive and neutral zones.

With Lucic, he rapidly lost his ability to generate offense, and never had a great shot to begin with, but is still reliable defensively and is nearly impossible move from the front of the net once he gets there. In the bottom six he will be just fine as a utility player and nobody can deny he brings a scary physical element few in the league bring. The big detriment with Lucic is even in his later years he is still wildly undisciplined and over the course of the season that adds up significantly if you aren't drawing penalties to offset it - which he doesn't, at all - but this is something Bill Peters should be able to tame to an extent.

If Lucic can reign in his temper while still holding opponents accountable, I think Neal will have the better counting numbers but the Flames will be better off overall. Neal brought nothing to the table here, while Lucic can if he puts his mind to it and controls himself a bit.


Here are their respective time-weighted impacts on teammates for last season isolated, and the last two seasons cumulative. Plus non-fight/misconduct PIM differential.

                    2018-19 only
          xG%     HD%     CF%    PIM +/-
Lucic  +1.62    +3.71    +3.16    -29
Neal   -5.65    -5.79    -2.27     0 (Even)

                 2018-19 and 2017-18
          xG%     HD%     CF%    PIM +/-
Lucic  +2.63    +4.55    +2.34    -63
Neal   +0.42    +2.24    +3.50    +34

I say all this as someone who has been very critical of Lucic in Edmonton. And again, everything changes based on the pieces that remain unknown - and the Flames will be significant losers if this negatively impacts the expansion draft.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by the2bears

I have seen this a few times. The great thing is if Neal is getting 20 on the top line in Edmonton that means someone else is *not* getting 30-40 there. It's not top-line winger production, and it may make Neal look better but it's not improving Edmonton much if at all.

Yep, James Neal could turn into a 30 goal scorer and Smitty a .910 goalie... and they still will be in the basement.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I wish this was a doofus for doofus deal.

The buyout alrernative mismatch and the expansion draft protection issue with lucic make this a flat out win for the oilers.

Lucic fought TWICE last year. This truculence bs is getting annoying from the flames management. They prioritize is but have zero clue on how to build a roster with team toughness.

Oilers fans must be damn happy with their new gm. They finally outright win a deal.

Lol when the acquisition is Neal, you're not "winning" anything. Since when was reeling in the most invisible player on a team twenty times better than you something to hurrah about?

[devo22]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I am sorry but this is BS. Lucic had 50 points 3 seasons ago... and has outproduced Eriksson in the past 3 years.. 94 to 76 points..and Eriksson is 3 years older. Why I used 3 years? Because that is when both players started their contracts.

If you are calling Lucic done.. then Eriksson is also certainly done.

Lucic is 31 years old. Who cares what he did 3 years ago? Lucic went from 23+27 to 10+24 to 6+14 ... not exactly a good trend. There's a chance Neal can ride shotgun in Edmonton, personally I think he's smart enough to do that. Lucic has already shown that he can't do that anymore.

[mrdonkey]

Kadri spurning the Flames.

Ferland signing with the Canucks.

ZERO improvements made to the roster that got dummied in the first round.

And to top it all off, handing the Oilers a player who easily slots into their top 6 in return for a $5.4 million goon who may or may not require protection in the expansion draft.

Yeah, this summer can **** right off any time now.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Lol when the acquisition is Neal, you're not "winning" anything. Since when was reeling in the most invisible player on a team twenty times better than you something to hurrah about?

Oilers can buy him out next offseason and save themselves $3+ million on the cap.

It's a dumb trade unless the flames have also found the fountain of youth under the Saddledome

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

The longer this goes, the more hope I'm having Treliving is pulling off some wizardry flipping Lucic.

Its more likely we see him doing a presser saying how Calgary, quite simply, needs to get tougher. And Milan was available, and the contract situation worked out, and they expect Milan to pull his weight around the Dome for the upcoming season (and how Milan has already expressed his willingness to take Calgary deep into the playoffs).

There is nothing more that can be done, other than Francis buying his contract and keeping Lucic in frozen carbonite until 2021.

[SportsJunky]

If the other rumour of Bennett for Puljujarvi comes to pass, I’ll, well I’ll, I don’t know but I won’t be pleased. Stop the madness Brad.

[Huntingwhale]

The only good thing in all of this mess is that The Scorpion better be buying a Lucic jersey to supplement his already strange jersey collection.

[P-Rugby]

Hopefully his goal song is the flintstones theme