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Old 04-29-2020, 02:22 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda View Post
We already have some understanding of how interstellar travel could work without breaking the laws of physics

https://cosmosmagazine.com/the-futur...ges-warp-drive
Lol, understanding what? this is a sci-fi article from 2014 using other articles from the 90's.

The last word at the official NASA site on warp drives was 5 years ago: for the near future, warp drive remains a dream.

There are two certain things about UFO's

1) there has never been one shred of proof of evidence provided by any worldwide country leader ever, zero! This must be best kept global secret known to mankind.

2) lots of people are making big $$$ on the story's about them.
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Old 04-29-2020, 02:56 AM   #42
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Cool drones

Seriously though, it's one thing to believe other intelligent life forms exist on other planets but to think they broke all laws of physics to visit us is beyond belief.
I mean, you bring a smartphone to people in the 19th century and they'd accuse you of witchcraft.

The people of north sentinel island who have remained isolated from the rest of the world for 10,000 years probably look up at aircraft flying overhead and can't comprehend what they're seeing. They've attacked helicopters when they've flown nearby, likely out of fear of disruption to their island and way of life, and when they retreat, the people just go back into the jungle and not bother to venture out and gain an understanding of what they're seeing.

Now just extrapolate that to a larger scale with us living in the twenty first century. Could we not be doing the same thing?

What if we don't know everything about physics and harnessing those laws with tech? And what if that is the equivalent of a drone to something else out there. Who knows, but you can't write it off definitively until someone comes out and busts it. But that footage has been out there for a year and no one has.

We just might be those people observing something that exists but is not yet within our understanding.

People do tend to be uncomfortable with change in perspective to their little bubble worlds of they prefer to box themselves into

Which is exactly why many laugh and scold the notion of it all. Because they've arrogant enough to believe that people know everything there is to know about the universe. And that what can exist ends at what the US/Russia/China can come up with. And yet our perspective and knowledge is expanding all the time, and we're completely reevaluating things every few decades.

The universe is a very, very big place. And if we can exist here and have accomplished and built what we have in this tiny amount of time in the vast scale of time, what else can exist out there in a universe 14 billion years old that got a massive head start on technology development?

Just don't know. But to rule it out is simply ignorance.

It's not sci fi, x-files chatter really, it's just being realistic and looking at the probability that such things can exist in such an expansive place we occupy yet are only beginning to understand/explore.

Anyways, fun conversation to be had.

Not one I expected to be touching on but 2020 is proving to be a special kind of enigma.

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Old 04-29-2020, 08:47 AM   #43
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There's the video but there's also the comments from David Fravor and 3 other pilots who saw these objects up close with their naked eyes and what they did for over five minutes. I want to see the author of that video explain that.
Why would he? The brain is known to be unreliable, and more credentials doesn't make that less true.

Look at the one video describing the object as going fast over the water, the military guys are convinced of this but a bit of trig with their own instruments shows it to not be true.

Trying to explain every single memory by every person is kind of a waste of time since they don't really count as evidence.

If they do then angels and demons and ghosts all exist too.
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Old 04-29-2020, 09:11 AM   #44
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Why would he? The brain is known to be unreliable, and more credentials doesn't make that less true.

Look at the one video describing the object as going fast over the water, the military guys are convinced of this but a bit of trig with their own instruments shows it to not be true.

Trying to explain every single memory by every person is kind of a waste of time since they don't really count as evidence.

If they do then angels and demons and ghosts all exist too.
How many DoD confirmed videos of those are there?
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Old 04-29-2020, 09:35 AM   #45
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How many DoD confirmed videos of those are there?
Dion wasn't talking about the videos, he was talking about the personal accounts and asking why the maker of the that video didn't explain those.
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Old 04-29-2020, 09:42 AM   #46
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I find it interesting how disproportionately often UFO sightings happen around United States in particular and to American pilots.

It's also funny how UFO sightings have gone down over time, despite the population of the world growing and the amount of detection and recording technology available to people increasing about a million fold.
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:03 AM   #47
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While these videos may or may not be explainable, why is it so hard to believe that there could possibly be other terrestrials out there that have millions or billions of years of advanced technology, knowledge and understanding of science and physics on us?
Is it any more ore less plausible to think that even within a universe teeming with intelligent life, we here on earth remain on the cutting edge of new technology? Maybe we are the ones who have advanced the furthest.
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:05 AM   #48
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It's also funny how UFO sightings have gone down over time, despite the population of the world growing and the amount of detection and recording technology available to people increasing about a million fold.
Have a stat to back that one up?
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:11 AM   #49
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Dion wasn't talking about the videos, he was talking about the personal accounts and asking why the maker of the that video didn't explain those.
Because eyewitness accounts are known to be extraordinarily unreliable in the first place?
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:17 AM   #50
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Have a stat to back that one up?
What is behind the decline in UFO sightings?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-ufo-sightings

UFO sightings in North America jumped to nearly 6,000 in 2019

https://abcnews.go.com/US/ufo-sighti...ry?id=68145474


https://www.statista.com/chart/8452/...ecord-heights/


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Old 04-29-2020, 10:25 AM   #51
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Thank you for that. I would see the decline as a combination of things, including the flooding of amateur content on social media that previously had a more obscure domain for "must see" footage, a lack of focus in the media on UFO's as people get their fill of the paranormal and weird from streaming services, and general trends in ufology as the article suggests. After the release of "Fire in the Sky" in 1993 and the media attention around the Phoenix lights, ufology likely spiked due to pop culture.

That said, up until 2014 it was steadily rising. I think all it really takes is a major news story once in a while to bump interest again. The Nimitz videos and the Navy confirmation may just be that for now.

As for the recent spike, maybe people just loving creating Fake News - something that seems to permeate our culture recently
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Old 04-29-2020, 01:59 PM   #52
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I think the general disinterest from the scientific community says a lot about the videos.

The DoD doesn't make any claim about the videos, other than that they are interesting.

There are just too many things that don't add up if anyone in charge of the program thought this was evidence of intelligent extra-terrestrial life. They allegedly were seeing unidentified objects for months, yet the only video we get is grainy radar and heat signature images. Why wouldn't they be sending drones with better video imaging equipment? This would be the closest thing to observing the phenomenon in a controlled and predictable environment, yet they seemed unprepared to actually document anything. In reality, there would be more scientists involved and no one would be relying on eye witness reports of pilots.

Also, while I realize that if there were aliens visiting, we couldn't necessarily understand their motives and thought processes, I find it hard to believe that they would playing coy games with us. They would either make themselves known or unknown, not get caught off-guard by primitive humans.
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Old 04-29-2020, 02:06 PM   #53
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Is it any more ore less plausible to think that even within a universe teeming with intelligent life, we here on earth remain on the cutting edge of new technology? Maybe we are the ones who have advanced the furthest.
I'd say us being the most advanced is the least plausible. Earth is relatively young, and we have only been around for a blink of cosmic time. Even given random chance that only 2 intelligent civilizations arise, that's a 50% chance we are the most advanced. But if there is one other, there are probably hundreds or millions more. The odds we are the most advanced of all the intelligent beings out their is pretty slim. So either we are alone out there, or odds are we are not the most advanced.
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Old 04-29-2020, 02:14 PM   #54
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Maybe the necessary conditions for life only happen in nth generation star systems, it takes many generations to build up levels of elements that are only generated in supernovae and such. So while we've only been around a blink of cosmic time, the earth is 4.5 billion years out of 14 billion years for the universe.. maybe multicellular life typically takes billions of years, and more advanced life is only likely in solar systems that are 10 billion years old.. so maybe we're not the absolute first, but maybe we're on the leading edge of the rise as the universe hits its golden age of suitability for complex life.

Or while advanced civilizations are definitely possible and happen more than a few times, the rate is still low that over the vastness of space and time the likelihood that one would encounter another is vanishingly small.
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Old 04-29-2020, 02:20 PM   #55
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Why would they visit in person? We are exploring the solar system with drones and robots.

Why do most UFOs reported seem to be to the scale of human aircraft? That speaks to an anthropomorphism.


https://skepticalinquirer.org/2018/1...why-so-varied/
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Old 04-29-2020, 02:23 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by photon View Post
Why would he? The brain is known to be unreliable, and more credentials doesn't make that less true.

Look at the one video describing the object as going fast over the water, the military guys are convinced of this but a bit of trig with their own instruments shows it to not be true.

Trying to explain every single memory by every person is kind of a waste of time since they don't really count as evidence.

If they do then angels and demons and ghosts all exist too.
What would really help in this regard is for the DOD to release more info and data on these events. Give scientists more info to work with.

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As for the DOD, other than releasing the video, they haven't said much. Presumably they have access to more data from the flight, and from reports made immediately after the encounter. Releasing more info could begin to answer to scientists' questions. But ultimately, even that might not be enough.
Most scientists don't care about UFO videos because they don't indicate extraterrestrial life


Following is a transcript of the video.

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Caleb Scharf: "I think it's very, very difficult as a scientist to look at something like this and say anything except, you know, it's intriguing. But I would need a vast amount more documentation and context to really understand what's going on here."

Caleb Scharf is an astronomer and director of the multidisciplinary Columbia Astrobiology Center.

Caleb Scharf: "The difficulty with this kind of problem is that you can't plan for it."

Carolin Frueh: "Yeah, because I think that's exactly, one cannot tell much from the video."

That's Carolin Frueh, she's an assistant professor at Purdue School of Aeronautics and Astronautics.

Carolin Frueh: "Yeah, I would like to know what the wind was ... was there turbulence?

What they're talking about, is the scientific method. Basically, before scientists will accept something as fact, a lot of research and testing has to be done. And it all has to take place in a controlled environment.

Caleb Scharf: "You can't plan for it. You can't really set up a thorough, proper scientific experiment. It's all reliant on serendipitous data. And that's one of the most difficult kinds of problems to solve in science. So I'm not surprised that we don't have a good answer yet."

Caleb Scharf: "On the one hand, I could be really cynical about all of this but I think it's really wonderful that people are intrigued by phenomena that they see out in the world. That's a good thing. That's a positive thing, our curiosity is a positive thing. And to be honest, if there are strange things floating around up there, I'd like to know what they are. The difficulty with this kind of problem is that you can't plan for it."
https://www.businessinsider.com/ufo-...nt-care-2018-1
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Old 04-29-2020, 02:25 PM   #57
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Or why visit at all? Curiosity seems to be a feature of life, but we're all on the same branch of life here, maybe that's unusual.

Maybe most advanced civilizations grow internally, ending up as cultures inhabiting vast virtual realities powered by planet sized computers. Or they just build their Von Neumann machines that spread over the galaxy razing solar systems of their resources to send home, or converting solar systems to sterile shrines to their power.
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Old 04-29-2020, 02:28 PM   #58
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Maybe advanced civilizations actually do send probes to keep tabs on us. These probes are small and discrete - but sponge up enough of humanity to report back to the intergalactic council of Ministers - although they continually get disappointed by the constant war, conflict, disease, environmental destruction, and general malaise in human societal evolution, so they choose to stay away until conditions improve
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Old 04-29-2020, 02:37 PM   #59
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Maybe the necessary conditions for life only happen in nth generation star systems, it takes many generations to build up levels of elements that are only generated in supernovae and such. So while we've only been around a blink of cosmic time, the earth is 4.5 billion years out of 14 billion years for the universe.. maybe multicellular life typically takes billions of years, and more advanced life is only likely in solar systems that are 10 billion years old.. so maybe we're not the absolute first, but maybe we're on the leading edge of the rise as the universe hits its golden age of suitability for complex life.

Or while advanced civilizations are definitely possible and happen more than a few times, the rate is still low that over the vastness of space and time the likelihood that one would encounter another is vanishingly small.
The time scale is one of the biggest contact issue IMO. One million years is a relatively short time in astronomical terms, but is a large window for 2 intelligent civilizations several light years away, to miss meeting other. Even if the technology existed, running into each other at the exact same time in the history of the universe would have really low odds.
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Old 04-29-2020, 02:48 PM   #60
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Maybe advanced civilizations actually do send probes to keep tabs on us. These probes are small and discrete - but sponge up enough of humanity to report back to the intergalactic council of Ministers - although they continually get disappointed by the constant war, conflict, disease, environmental destruction, and general malaise in human societal evolution, so they choose to stay away until conditions improve
Oh yeah, without a doubt if there's some intergalactic council that governs these things, they've definitely quarantined us.
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