Unpopular Opinions about Flames

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I'm starting to feel that a terrible year might actually be a good thing for the organization. We need another impact player and a high draft pick would be the easiest way to achieve that. I also hope we make some major moves to shake the team up and a bad year likely increases the odds of that as well. I think the team might need to take a step or two back to take two or three forward. Stanley Cup first year in the new arena.

Better to have a bad season with some good options in the draft. If we can get a top five draft position we could do a trade to try and acquire a second top five, that would be ideal. We have enough pieces to make that happen. Heck 3 in the top 10 would be even better. Might be the year we see some major changes!

[Harry Lime]

What has to worry the Flames organization the most is that this is a very unentertaining product. Losing in a fun way, I can handle.

That doesn't fit this thread.

How about, I can see a lot of Flames fans becoming Rain City Bitch Pigeon fans, if this continues for a full year.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Unpopular fact, since I don’t know where else to post this. Flames have trailed for 646 minutes this season. Dead last in the nhl. No other team has broken 600 minutes.

Courtesy of Nault on the morning show.

[Erick Estrada]

Unpopular opinion but you can make a case for the GM not making any major moves because if they miss the playoffs this season we know the trend going back 6 years means they will bounce back next season with a good season and make the playoffs. The best time it appears to make big moves is the offseason of a year when they have success as that's when you want to try stopping the trend of stinking things up after a good season.

[united]

Elias Lindholm is the best centreman on the team and would excel if given the role full-time. The centreman is the most important position on the ice, and right now the Flames' top line has a one-zone centreman which doesn't cut it on a team with Stanley Cup aspirations.

Related, Sean Monahan is a top line centre, but is in the 25-30 range league-wide. Physically he is WAY more engaged this season, but he still isn't doing the things that lead to success in his own zone and it's causing nightmares for the team. Without a centreman willing to put in the effort - stops and starts, initiating switches, aggressively confronting players down low, taking hits to make plays, focusing on stick position - you end up in fire drill mode in your own end and your chances of breaking out cleanly with possession and speed is seriously compromised. Monahan hasn't had the requisite attention to detail for a few seasons now. Watch the effort level Patrice Bergeron, Brayden Point, Ryan O'Reilly, to name a few, put in below the dots in their own zone relative to Monahan and it's eye-opening.

This reminds me of a few seasons ago when the Steven Stamkos was shifted to winger duty temporarily to reset his game. While he was unhappy with the change, as no doubt Monahan would be, it allowed Stamkos a fresh perspective on what wingers need of their centreman to maximize success of the unit as a whole and everyone came out better as a result. Stamkos in particular is better because of it, and Monahan will be, too.

Swapping Monahan and Lindholm allows the more determined and better defensive player with a higher work rate (Lindholm) do the dirty work and get the puck moving toward the other end. Monahan in turn gets to the offensive end quicker which will help alleviate the time Gaudreau needs to spend delaying before hitting the trailer. Monahan on the right, as a left shot who has the extraordinary ability to get his deadly release off whether out wide, in tight, and on the front or back foot, has enhanced ability to change angles further complicating things for goaltenders.

Play players to their strengths. Lindholm is outstanding defensively, Gaudreau is top five in the league in transition, and Monahan while not overpowering has one of the most unique and deceptive releases in the league.

Maybe it sticks, maybe it doesn't. But right now the line is a disaster, and a change - permanent or otherwise - can spark a return to dominance.

[Finger Cookin]

I like Johnny Gaudreau and hope he plays the majority of his career with the Flames.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by united

Elias Lindholm is the best centreman on the team and would excel if given the role full-time. The centreman is the most important position on the ice, and right now the Flames' top line has a one-zone centreman which doesn't cut it on a team with Stanley Cup aspirations.

Related, Sean Monahan is a top line centre, but is in the 25-30 range league-wide. Physically he is WAY more engaged this season, but he still isn't doing the things that lead to success in his own zone and it's causing nightmares for the team. Without a centreman willing to put in the effort - stops and starts, initiating switches, aggressively confronting players down low, taking hits to make plays, focusing on stick position - you end up in fire drill mode in your own end and your chances of breaking out cleanly with possession and speed is seriously compromised. Monahan hasn't had the requisite attention to detail for a few seasons now. Watch the effort level Patrice Bergeron, Brayden Point, Ryan O'Reilly, to name a few, put in below the dots in their own zone relative to Monahan and it's eye-opening.

This reminds me of a few seasons ago when the Steven Stamkos was shifted to winger duty temporarily to reset his game. While he was unhappy with the change, as no doubt Monahan would be, it allowed Stamkos a fresh perspective on what wingers need of their centreman to maximize success of the unit as a whole and everyone came out better as a result. Stamkos in particular is better because of it, and Monahan will be, too.

Swapping Monahan and Lindholm allows the more determined and better defensive player with a higher work rate (Lindholm) do the dirty work and get the puck moving toward the other end. Monahan in turn gets to the offensive end quicker which will help alleviate the time Gaudreau needs to spend delaying before hitting the trailer. Monahan on the right, as a left shot who has the extraordinary ability to get his deadly release off whether out wide, in tight, and on the front or back foot, has enhanced ability to change angles further complicating things for goaltenders.

Play players to their strengths. Lindholm is outstanding defensively, Gaudreau is top five in the league in transition, and Monahan while not overpowering has one of the most unique and deceptive releases in the league.

Maybe it sticks, maybe it doesn't. But right now the line is a disaster, and a change - permanent or otherwise - can spark a return to dominance.

Alternatively I think the argument could be made to go with them as the top 2 C at this point due to Backlund's struggles this year.

Also think we need to give the younger guys the time to sink or swim in top 6 minutes.

In the absence of a trade (which will probably be tough to make right now) I wouldn't mind seeing:

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane (All guys work hard, have talent, and play with a bit of bite)

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ryan (Add another puck carrier to help Gaudreau, and a responsible defensive forward to help Monahan)

Bennett - Backlund - Frolik (Let them take third line minutes where they just need to focus on other teams top lines)

Lucic - Jankowski - Reider (Jankowski + Reider have actually been good together)

[Flash Walken]

I can't read any more posts about line combinations, it's just the most futile of exercises to me.

Put gaudreau or monahan on any line and they are going to suck hard until they decide not to suck anymore. I'd rather keep them together to prevent screwing up the other lines that are even sort of working, but game in game out they are going to be your top line because on the off chance they have a good game, it's probably going to win you the game.

Mangiapane can't handle 20 minutes a night, I think that's just a crazy suggestion. He's not in a position to be the one babysitting 13 or 23. Lindholm eats his lunch every day trying to do it, I can't imagine what a line with two guys under 5'8 plus Monahan would look like out there for 20 minutes a night. Two guys under 5'8 with all the defensive weight on Lindholm at C isn't much better.

I like Tkachuk and Lindholm as a pair and I like Tkachuk and Monahan as a pair because Tkachuk actually plays hard. That's basically the entire argument for either combo. Put one of the only two centres that can score with the only skilled winger on the team who works hard.

They will either will their way out of the funk or we're headed for major trades in by July 1.

Right now this is an exercise in re-arranging the deck chairs.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I can't read any more posts about line combinations, it's just the most futile of exercises to me.

Right now this is an exercise in re-arranging the deck chairs.

I honestly don't think this is the titanic just yet.

Really what Peters needs to try to do is put the guys who are working harder in the best position to succeed away from Gaudreau & Monahan right now.

So I agree you need to keep those two together - and put Ryan with them to try to babysit them. Just try and keep the puck out of our own net, and hopefully Ryan gives Gaudreau another puck handler to let him play off the puck a bit more.

You put Tkachuk and Lindholm together really as the new 1st line and really it's probably Mangiapane or Bennett there on the Right Side because that's all we got.

Then you have Backlund just playing simple hockey on the third line, and the 4th line has at least not been getting scored on lately.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I honestly don't think this is the titanic just yet.

Really what Peters needs to try to do is put the guys who are working harder in the best position to succeed away from Gaudreau & Monahan right now.

So I agree you need to keep those two together - and put Ryan with them to try to babysit them. Just try and keep the puck out of our own net, and hopefully Ryan gives Gaudreau another puck handler to let him play off the puck a bit more.

You put Tkachuk and Lindholm together really as the new 1st line and really it's probably Mangiapane or Bennett there on the Right Side because that's all we got.

Then you have Backlund just playing simple hockey on the third line, and the 4th line has at least not been getting scored on lately.

tkachuk lindholm mangiapane/bennett is a bad first line though.

you're not going to be any better if you have a 12 minute per night guy playing 20 minutes. It just doesn't work that way.

It's hard enough to do that on line 2 at 17 minutes a night.

[dissentowner]

Tree should blow the whole team up and trade away everyone because they are either too old, too soft, don't care, have regressed, forgot how to play hockey, and are only interested on how much money they saved by switching to Geico. It is 23 games in and the season is clearly over!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Bennett - Backlund - Frolik (Let them take third line minutes where they just need to focus on other teams top lines)

if they focus on the other teams best players, they'll need to take more than "third line minutes". Unless the other team co-operates and sits their top players to allow you the match up you want.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Tree should blow the whole team up and trade away everyone because they are either too old, too soft, don't care, have regressed, forgot how to play hockey, and are only interested on how much money they saved by switching to Geico. It is 23 games in and the season is clearly over!

I like the idea of letting the team play out the calander year. If the team still stinks jan 1 then its time to start moving players.

Players to go if things stay the same-

Hamonic, brodie, fro, ryan by the deadline

Seriously listen on Johnny and Gio pull the trigger if its a huge deal.

Move them at the draft at worse.


Then draft well and create a harder working culture.

[Vinny01]

This group needs the players only meeting where they all hold themselves accountable and recommit to playing for each other and realizing they have a talented squad but hard work is required.

This year we question the effort far too much.

[madmike]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Alternatively I think the argument could be made to go with them as the top 2 C at this point due to Backlund's struggles this year.

Also think we need to give the younger guys the time to sink or swim in top 6 minutes.

In the absence of a trade (which will probably be tough to make right now) I wouldn't mind seeing:

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane (All guys work hard, have talent, and play with a bit of bite)

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ryan (Add another puck carrier to help Gaudreau, and a responsible defensive forward to help Monahan)

Bennett - Backlund - Frolik (Let them take third line minutes where they just need to focus on other teams top lines)

Lucic - Jankowski - Reider (Jankowski + Reider have actually been good together)

I was thinking on this last night and these are the lines I had too. Although I really think Frolik might be better served in the press box.

I think the Flames should really get Lindholm and Tkachuk together on the top line. Mangiapane makes the most sense as their winger.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

tkachuk lindholm mangiapane/bennett is a bad first line though.

you're not going to be any better if you have a 12 minute per night guy playing 20 minutes. It just doesn't work that way.

It's hard enough to do that on line 2 at 17 minutes a night.

Those guys are just the best option we have for that spot right now with the way the roster is constructed.

I think Mangiapane would be fine in that role short term. He's 7th on the team in ice time this year as is, and if you drop Backlund to 3rd line C then he's the one that moves into that top 6 IMO.

Mangiapane works hard, has some skill, is good at carrying the puck through the netural zone, and plays strong positionally in the defensive zone.

I think Tkachuk and him have actually worked well together in setting up Backlund for a lot of chances. Backlund just can't finish this year, Lindholm might be perfect in that spot.

Tkachuk is first on the team with 1.52 primary points (goals + 1st assists) per 60 minutes at 5v5 this year, Mangiapane is second at 1.50.

He also leads the team in High Danger chances per 60 when he's on the ice this year. He's potentially a play driver, and he has a very similar development curve to Brendan Gallagher, time to see if he can take the next step.

[TheIronMaiden]

The Flames may not be good this year, but their window isn't closed. Getting some contracts off the books will give them room to improve. Good thing is that they have the players in their system ready to take over lots of these spots already.

Frolík, 4.3
Jankowski, 1.67
Brodie, 4.65
Hamonic, 3.9 ( I wouldn't might signing him again, but not for more than this)

That is 14 Million that they could be spent on improving the scoring depth of this team.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The Flames may not be good this year, but their window isn't closed. Getting some contracts off the books will give them room to improve. Good thing is that they have the players in their system ready to take over lots of these spots already.

Frolík, 4.3
Jankowski, 1.67
Brodie, 4.65
Hamonic, 3.9 ( I wouldn't might signing him again, but not for more than this)

That is 14 Million that they could be spent on improving the scoring depth of this team.

Anderson, Mangipane, Kylington will eat into that cap space. They also need to replace Brodie, and Hamomic.

They have 21.5M in cap space projected for next year but only 12 out of 23 roster spots filled so they won’t have a ton of money to throw around.

[djsFlames]

I'm also a fan of moving Lindholm to the middle and Ryan into the top six. Bump Backlund out of second line shutdown duties until he finds his game.

[Strange Brew]

It just seems so obvious I that I have no idea why Peters isn’t playing Lindholm at center.