Let's talk about Cryptocurrencies

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by dino7c

People store gold, consider what it takes to get gold out of the ground then it is placed in a vault, buried in a yard, or made into a toilet

OK, that doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin can't possibly replace the global banking system based on energy consumption, or that any comparison in regards to that would make any sense, because Bitcoin only covers a small portion of what banks do. And as I've shown, it's incredibly inefficient at processing transactions(by design, I might point out). Not only in power consumption, but also cost and speed.

If you want to argue the pointlessness of mining gold for the sole purpose of storing value(beyond it's value as an industrial metal and jewelry) and how that relates to the cost of mining a bitcoin, well that's an argument that you could make and would actually make sense. You can show the math on that one.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

OK, that doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin can't possibly replace the global banking system based on energy consumption, or that any comparison in regards to that would make any sense, because Bitcoin only covers a small portion of what banks do. And as I've shown, it's incredibly inefficient at processing transactions(by design, I might point out). Not only in power consumption, but also cost and speed.

If you want to argue the pointlessness of mining gold for the sole purpose of storing value(beyond it's value as an industrial metal and jewelry) and how that relates to the cost of mining a bitcoin, well that's an argument that you could make and would actually make sense. You can show the math on that one.

what is the point of gold jewelry? showing off your wealth?

My argument makes sense because its stupid to pick one thing and say "hey this uses more energy than such and such a city"

You could do that with almost anything. Crypto changes and evolves, that is kinda the point. It needs to and will get greener. Gold mining? not so much.

The argument is don't be a hypocrite.

[karl262]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

...because you can't use Bitcoin to manage your mortgage, or loan you money.

It can and will do so much more than that. Look into decentralized finance (DeFi) and asset tokenization, I think you'll be impressed. Inside magazine published a good article on it written be staff from Deloitte, my pdf of it says issue 19, I'm not sure when it was published, but it does a good analysis of the challenges ahead for blockchain tech to be the major multi-sector disruptive force that so many people think it will be.

[Fuzz]

I was referring to Bitcoin, not any other crypto or blockchain.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by dino7c

what is the point of gold jewelry? showing off your wealth?

My argument makes sense because its stupid to pick one thing and say "hey this uses more energy than such and such a city"

You could do that with almost anything. Crypto changes and evolves, that is kinda the point. It needs to and will get greener. Gold mining? not so much.

The argument is don't be a hypocrite.

Do you have a reference for your comparison that Bitcoin uses less energy than gold used to store value?

That seems like a reasonable comparison to compare the KW/$ spent on the Minimg, storage and transfer of gold used for no purpose other than storage of value vs Bitcoin.

Edit: this article suggests that 127 TWH of electricity are used for Bitcoin vs 137 TWH for gold yet the market capitalization of gold is 10x that of Bitcoin. Ignoring other gold uses that suggests that per dollar of value stored Bitcoin is 10 times less efficient.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.forb...hos-right/amp/

And banking which essentially processes the rest of the worlds GDP is 140 TWH. So in terms of KW/$ Bitcoin is not close

Also gold mining will get more energy efficient overtime or the cost of gold will go up increasing market cap and decreasing KW/$ of stores value.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by dino7c

what is the point of gold jewelry? showing off your wealth?

My argument makes sense because its stupid to pick one thing and say "hey this uses more energy than such and such a city"

You could do that with almost anything. Crypto changes and evolves, that is kinda the point. It needs to and will get greener. Gold mining? not so much.

The argument is don't be a hypocrite.

Gold is only used in jewelry? Take a look at your video card or any electronic device.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I was surprised its other usages was so high actually. I'm assuming that's for newly mined gold as Indian families alone account for something like 15% of gold with their jewelry.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Gold is only used in jewelry? Take a look at your video card or any electronic device.

Who said that?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I was surprised its other usages was so high actually. I'm assuming that's for newly mined gold as Indian families alone account for something like 15% of gold with their jewelry.

So half of all gold is used for vanity

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by dino7c

So half of all gold is used for vanity

so Solomon was wrong?

[afc wimbledon]

Just to throw in my 2 cents worth, its important to realise Bitcoin requires all the energy for mining....and then on top of that in order to be useful also requires a full banking infrastructure with all of the energy requirements of our regular banking system, bitcoin cannot replaces banks, it needs them even more than gold or cash.

Bitcoin isnt competing with banks, its competing with cash, bitcoin cant give you a mortgage or hold on to your RRSP, you might use bitcoin one day to pay your mortgage but bitcoin does absolutely nothing to replace the banking system.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Who said that?

What were you implying then?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Just to throw in my 2 cents worth, its important to realise Bitcoin requires all the energy for mining....and then on top of that in order to be useful also requires a full banking infrastructure with all of the energy requirements of our regular banking system, bitcoin cannot replaces banks, it needs them even more than gold or cash.

Bitcoin isnt competing with banks, its competing with cash, bitcoin cant give you a mortgage or hold on to your RRSP, you might use bitcoin one day to pay your mortgage but bitcoin does absolutely nothing to replace the banking system.

Its certainly competing with gold as a store of value

BTC must be above 40k when the argument moves from I told you so its going to crash to zero to "but the environment"

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Wormius

What were you implying then?

I was replying to a comment that mentioned Jewelry as a practical use of gold...electronics I will give you. I am not against gold, just pointing out how hypocritical it is to pretend the environment is why you don't like crypto.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Its certainly competing with gold as a store of value

BTC must be above 40k when the argument moves from I told you so its going to crash to zero to "but the environment"

I have no idea whether the environment ends up being a problem for bitcoin, I was just pointing out how farcical it is to argue that you can compare bitcoins energy use with regular banking as if it could replace banks, bitcoin is the most banking system reliant store of value that we have ever seen, I can take a gold ring into the upper reaches of the Amazon a thousand miles from the nearest phone or internet connection and swap them with a complete stranger for a hotel room, a bottle of hooch and a hooker, that is why people buy Gold jewelry, get gold fillings in their teeth even, in a pinch you can trade it.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I was replying to a comment that mentioned Jewelry as a practical use of gold...electronics I will give you. I am not against gold, just pointing out how hypocritical it is to pretend the environment is why you don't like crypto.

Is the argument it’s bad for the environment so it should be banned or is it Bitcoin won’t scale because of energy consumption and therefore transaction cost and that creates a limited max value and makes substitution more likely.

[PsYcNeT]

I'm not even sure what the argument is for Bitcoin. It's a useless gold hedge that doesn't even perform any kind of basic function other than Proof of Concept, which it fulfilled as a purpose 10 years ago.

[The Fonz]

Entirely out of curiosity, does anyone know what the approximate breakeven value is of BTC for mining operations? Are they still making money @ $30k BTC?

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Wormius

What were you implying then?

Bitcoin to a million and on power run by a couple hamster wheels.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Entirely out of curiosity, does anyone know what the approximate breakeven value is of BTC for mining operations? Are they still making money @ $30k BTC?

Isn’t it self adjusting in difficulty based on combined hash rate of all miners? Essentially the most energy efficient miners will always be profitable. What changes is the energy consumption of the marginal miner.