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View Poll Results: What do you think of the trade after a week of getting your head around it?
Love it, think Lucic is an upgrade 76 12.88%
Like it, clears some cap space even if Lucic is no better 186 31.53%
Indifferent, both teams getting a failed project 180 30.51%
Dislike it, Neal needed another year to bounce back 101 17.12%
Hate it, Neal will be better in Edmonton 47 7.97%
Voters: 590. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-09-2019, 11:31 AM   #2861
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I think there were other options available, had to be, every team has a bad contract or two, I just think the player we'd be getting back would've been slightly worse than Lucic. But if you're not helping out a hated divisional rival, then that might honestly be worth it because Brad will be hearing about this trade for the rest of his life. Neal is the type of player who needs a puck dominant center who can create time and space for him to be successful and Tre basically gave James Neal his dream center who can do that.
I don't think there was another trade out there for Treliving where he would save significant dollars and dump Neal.

I doubt he really cared what Neal does with Edmonton, they aren't a contender anyway.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:34 AM   #2862
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This is a huge blessing in disguise. The more the Oilers play Neal the worse off they are. He is a terrible two way player.

Plus minus isnít a useless stat, itís just useless out of context. But here is the context, his team is 3-0 and he has 6 goals (4 even strength?) yet is still isnít positive. That means he has been on the ice for a bunch of goals against. And what happens when the scoring inevitably dries up? Itís not like he has any defensive acumen to make up for that
4 PPG. 2 Even strength for and against = the 0 +/- stat.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:37 AM   #2863
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I think there were other options available, had to be, every team has a bad contract or two, I just think the player we'd be getting back would've been slightly worse than Lucic. But if you're not helping out a hated divisional rival, then that might honestly be worth it because Brad will be hearing about this trade for the rest of his life. Neal is the type of player who needs a puck dominant center who can create time and space for him to be successful and Tre basically gave James Neal his dream center who can do that.
Loui Eriksson? Kyle Okposo? We weren't going to get a good return that's for sure
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:44 AM   #2864
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4 PPG. 2 Even strength for and against = the 0 +/- stat.
My bad. Point is he isnít going to score over 100 goals in a season but he is so bad defensively that the other team might actually score 100 against when he is on the ice

So the more they play him the worse off they are and a hot start is best case scenario because it will just take them longer to eventually healthy scratch him and buy him out
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:46 AM   #2865
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Regardless of whether Neal had pulled it together with fitness and attitude during the offseason, it's pretty clear the coach/Flames didn't want him around. So trading swapping bad contracts and getting a player with an increased physical presence, along with a bonus of a possible 3rd rounder, and a possibly improved balance on the cap hit doesn't seem too bad.

We've now replaced Neal and Hathaway with Lucic and Rieder. Apart from the money and term, I like what Lucic brings, but are the Flames better as a result of the deal? I'm not so sure. In retrospect, if Treliving had never signed Neal in the first place, we would have been better off, but...
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:48 AM   #2866
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I am sure it has been covered in depth but
a) We do not have this same roster without the salary savings dealing Neal...the Tkachuk signing would have meant slightly different roster.
b) Neal was never going to get the minutes he is getting in Edmonton and it is still only a few games in. He played top 6 minutes and didn't produce further pushing him down the lineup.
c) Neal could go on to score 50. I would rather have Lucic and make playoffs over being an Oiler fan and having Neal where they very well could miss playoffs despite the hot start. If Neal puts in 40 goals, it was just as unlikely as him performing as poorly as he did in Calgary and I expect it to push back to average, slightly below average the following year.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:50 AM   #2867
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Individual story lines are fun to follow, truth is this is probably good for the rivalry over all. That said, I have a hard time getting up for this one, because to me moral victories are worth nothing. So long as the Flames finish ahead of the Oilers, you'll get no salt from me.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:52 AM   #2868
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Let's just let the chips fall where they may. No need to get worried about this, it's still just entertaining hockey and if Lucic gets to throw the body and deliver body checks that make us cheer it's all good. Just tune out of the Edmonton media and anyone else making a stink. If we've learned anything about hockey teams and players it's that they go up and down in wins and production, and that's just the normal hockey gravitas in any league, any time of the season.

I'm more entertained that the Flames and Oilers played Red Rover this summer, it was one of the most hilarious things I've seen in hockey operations
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:54 AM   #2869
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Just for clarification for those who aren't watching the games. A lot, I mean, a lot of people are posting that of course Neal will score 30 goals playing with McDavid.

He's not playing with McDavid. 5v5 he's been playing on the second line with Jurco & RNH. In 3 games he has 2 goals, 0 assists and is a 0 +/- 5v5. That's the full story.

Here they are. Two shifts where he didn't really do much of anything. The puck comes to him and he puts it on net. The goalie chokes on both.



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Old 10-09-2019, 12:00 PM   #2870
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Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper View Post
I think there were other options available, had to be, every team has a bad contract or two, I just think the player we'd be getting back would've been slightly worse than Lucic. But if you're not helping out a hated divisional rival, then that might honestly be worth it because Brad will be hearing about this trade for the rest of his life. Neal is the type of player who needs a puck dominant center who can create time and space for him to be successful and Tre basically gave James Neal his dream center who can do that.
I'd argue unless Flames were willing to package draft picks to go along with Neal, the only other options would have been worse than Lucic. At least Lucic fills a sort of need for the Flames in terms of overall team toughness. Can you imagine Loui Eriksson on that 3rd line? Would just be Neal all over again.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:03 PM   #2871
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The only players Neal and Lucic could have been traded for was each other.

Neither really wanted the other player, they each plugged their noses and got something better (for them) than they gave up. For Calgary, it was lots of money and a player that could provide some much needed toughness. For Edmonton, it was a guy who might score some goals.
Yeah the only other player that made any sense for similar reasons was Loui Eriksoon
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:14 PM   #2872
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I'd argue unless Flames were willing to package draft picks to go along with Neal, the only other options would have been worse than Lucic. At least Lucic fills a sort of need for the Flames in terms of overall team toughness. Can you imagine Loui Eriksson on that 3rd line? Would just be Neal all over again.
That was exactly it.

You could trade Neal for another one-dimensional goal scorer that hasn't worked out yet.

Okposo, Eriksson, etc

Or you could trade him for Lucic who maybe was worse offensively actually but would fit a role in our bottom 6.

The issue with the trade from day 1 wasn't the players involved IMO, but the team they were making the deal with.

Neal always had the chance to produce more playing on the top Edmonton PP with Draisaitl and McDavid, guys like Kassian/Chiasson had proved that anybody can produce in that spot, and an in-shape James Neal is still better than those guys.

So the issue with the deal was less about what Calgary was giving up, or even getting in return, but the issue was always that it had the potential to make Edmonton stronger.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:28 PM   #2873
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Just for clarification for those who aren't watching the games. A lot, I mean, a lot of people are posting that of course Neal will score 30 goals playing with McDavid.

He's not playing with McDavid. 5v5 he's been playing on the second line with Jurco & RNH. In 3 games he has 2 goals, 0 assists and is a 0 +/- 5v5. That's the full story...
Right, but four of Neal's six goals have come on the powerplay. All four have been assisted by McDavid, with Draisatl chipping an assist in on one of them. One of his ES goals was unassisted; only one of his line mates has set him up for a goal thus far.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Neal's powerplay production outstrip his ES production. That Oilers second line is going to be a disaster.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:28 PM   #2874
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Just for clarification for those who aren't watching the games. A lot, I mean, a lot of people are posting that of course Neal will score 30 goals playing with McDavid.

He's not playing with McDavid. 5v5 he's been playing on the second line with Jurco & RNH. In 3 games he has 2 goals, 0 assists and is a 0 +/- 5v5. That's the full story.
He's not playing with McDavid at even strength, but he is on the powerplay where 4 of his 6 goals have been scored so far (and McDavid has an assist on each one).
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:34 PM   #2875
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Right, but four of Neal's six goals have come on the powerplay. All four have been assisted by McDavid, with Draisatl chipping an assist in on one of them. One of his ES goals was unassisted; only one of his line mates has set him up for a goal thus far.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Neal's powerplay production outstrip his ES production. That Oilers second line is going to be a disaster.
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He's not playing with McDavid at even strength, but he is on the powerplay where 4 of his 6 goals have been scored so far (and McDavid has an assist on each one).
That’s exactly my point. A chewed stick of gum would score goals on powerplays with McDavid and Draisaitl. Any talk of Neal’s scoring this year should always be broken into 5v5 vs PP.

He may finish the year with 10G 5v5, unless his shooting percentage stays enormous and Kassian gets hurt or plays poorly causing Tippett to force him into the top line. Then he just gets Kassian’s 5v5 goals for the year.

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Old 10-09-2019, 12:35 PM   #2876
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I’m still glad he’s gone.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:42 PM   #2877
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Right, but four of Neal's six goals have come on the powerplay. All four have been assisted by McDavid, with Draisatl chipping an assist in on one of them. One of his ES goals was unassisted; only one of his line mates has set him up for a goal thus far.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Neal's powerplay production outstrip his ES production. That Oilers second line is going to be a disaster.
Agreed.

What IS frustrating, however, is he's properly being deployed on a powerplay where he can undoubtedly contribute, whereas he didn't get the same opportunity here.

Amplifying that frustration is watching the Flames early season PP sputter.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:46 PM   #2878
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I feel like the hockey gods are setting up the ultimate rope a dope for oiler fans.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:46 PM   #2879
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Agreed.

What IS frustrating, however, is he's properly being deployed on a powerplay where he can undoubtedly contribute, whereas he didn't get the same opportunity here.

Amplifying that frustration is watching the Flames early season PP sputter.
Who on that #1 PP unit in Calgary do you think Neal should have replaced?
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:47 PM   #2880
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Agreed.

What IS frustrating, however, is he's properly being deployed on a powerplay where he can undoubtedly contribute, whereas he didn't get the same opportunity here.

Amplifying that frustration is watching the Flames early season PP sputter.
Neal was 5th among forwards in PP TOI last year.

Do you believe he deserved more time than Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm or Tkachuk?
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