The Stephan trial and evidence-based healthcare

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by SebC

Yes. But the health and safety of the health and safety of the child also trumps the choice of an anti-vax parent, and forcing the kid to live in a bubble isn't the right answer.

Maybe I'm an unsympathetic SOB, but seeing diseases that were pretty much eradicated making comebacks, the child might be innocent, and a victim, but they're basically biological weapons for serious diseases.


Look at the return of measles. It was basically eradicated, now its made a serious return. So I'm sorry, but there's no way that a child's rights should rise above public safety when it comes to infectious diseases.


If parents want to not vaccinate their kids that's on them, they shouldn't be allowed into public schools where the disease can be spread. or public spaces where it can spread.



Basically the parents are following phony conspiracy science and screwing their kids over, and that makes a bad parent to me.

[Bagor]

Meanwhile in Ontario.

TORONTO — A family law arbitrator has upheld an Ontario mother’s refusal to have her children vaccinated, citing a leading advocate in the U.S. anti-vaccination movement who claims vaccines do more harm than good.

Earlier this month, the Toronto-based arbitrator also directed the father — who had requested an order forcing the kids to be immunized — to pay $35,000 of his ex-wife’s legal costs.

“Choosing not to vaccinate is not illegal, negligent nor immoral. It is a personal choice,” wrote lawyer Herschel Fogelman in his arbitration decision last year. “I am unable to find any risk to (the children) if they remain unvaccinated. Further, I am satisfied on the evidence the vaccines may pose additional risk to them.”

In fact, while the case was being heard, both children contracted whooping cough — or pertussis — one of the diseases covered by standard childhood vaccinations. Arnaud Presti, the father, said his new partner was pregnant at the time, and had to receive a pertussis booster due to the potentially deadly effect whooping cough can have on newborns.

Though he’s not a judge, Fogelman’s decision is binding

https://nationalpost.com/news/arbitr...ination-expert

[dobbles]

C'mon guys, you are supposed to be the beacon of rationality that helps me get through the day down here in 'Murica. These decisions are super disappointing!

[Buff]

Excuse me. I need to go find the "I don't want to live on this planet anymore" thread.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Meanwhile in Ontario.

That case was back in March. Case commentary from CMAJ blog:


https://cmajblogs.com/victory-of-an-...set-precedent/

While parents have a certain margin of appreciation in determining the nature and scope of medical interventions for their children, they must generally act in the child’s best interests. This means that decisions are not made in furtherance of the personal desires of the parent; all parental decisions are and ought to be assessed from the perspective of the child’s interests and welfare. As such, there are legal and moral reasons to view the parent’s decision-making authority as fettered, and with the potential to visit liability upon the parent.

Additionally, the best interests test is much broader than the medical perspective taken by the arbitrator and must encompass the child’s full circumstances. In this case, it should extend to the school system in Ontario which expects children to be vaccinated as a matter of course for school eligibility, and should consider the duties that we should expect to have in relation to maintaining healthy communities protected from infectious disease.


We argue that this appalling arbitration decision should set no precedent and should be ignored in emerging jurisprudence for its many shortcomings. It is vitally important to challenge ignorance, and to debunk false claims and poor decisions as they arise. A failure to do so gives space for falsehoods to grow, encouraging people to think them right-minded or correct. They are neither.

[MBates]

The trial judge is now facing an accusation of making racist comments about the medical examiner:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...cism-1.5298752

I do not know Justice Clackson personally but a lawyer from Edmonton had previously come to his defence on the suggestion he was biased:

https://twitter.com/TomEngel18/statu...26875021066240

The Crown indicates in the CBC article that they have not yet ruled out an appeal.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by MBates

The trial judge is now facing an accusation of making racist comments about the medical examiner:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...cism-1.5298752

Ahh, I have a better understanding of how the decision landed the way it did then.



"We believe that Justice Clackson's choice of words is inappropriate, shocks the conscience, and speaking for ourselves, undermines our confidence in the administration of justice."

Clackson "harshly mocked" Adeagbo's manner of speech and accented English, the complaint reads.

Here is a passage from Clackson's decision:

"His ability to articulate his thoughts in an understandable fashion was severely compromised by: his garbled enunciation; his failure to use appropriate endings for plurals and past tenses; his failure to use the appropriate definite and indefinite articles; his repeated emphasis of the wrong syllables; dropping his Hs; mispronouncing his vowels; and the speed of his responses."

[chemgear]

Apparently the same judge:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...peal-1.4091641

An Edmonton superior court judge has been accused of relying on rape "myths and stereotypes" to acquit a 55-year-old man of sexually assaulting his stepdaughter.

Girl said assaults went on for 6 years

When she testified at her stepfather's trial, she described her relationship with him as "OK, I guess." She had also told police the two of them "kind of" got along.

That didn't make sense to Clackson. He said that based on "logic and common sense," he expected a victim of sexual abuse would demonstrate some sign of being sexually abused, or at the very least would try to avoid the person who was abusing her.

Clackson did not hear from any experts before making his decision.

[chemgear]

https://calgaryherald.com/news/natio...ge-overwhelmed

Dr. Bamidele Adeagbo, who’s originally a resident of Nigeria, says he isn’t going to comment on Clackson’s comments and will leave that to the judge’s peers.

Adeagbo says he is quite overwhelmed that people really can see the truth and gives credit to the “good people of Canada.”

The Canadian Judicial Council has confirmed that it has received a complaint against Clackson and that it takes all allegations of misconduct against judges seriously.

[Inferno099]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Just for kicks, this is the same judge who found a man not guilty of molesting his daughter and got then overturned for making an error in law for relying on myths and stereotypes around the behaviour of sexual assault victims

So..... if this is the case and now with the complaint by 40+ professionals.... why is this person still on the bench? Without knowing any of his history this seems to be the type who should have been dismissed years ago.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by Inferno099

So..... if this is the case and now with the complaint by 40+ professionals.... why is this person still on the bench? Without knowing any of his history this seems to be the type who should have been dismissed years ago.

In each province there are a couple of angry, spiteful, generally offensive judges. This is an interesting complaint. If found guilty, I wonder if removal would be recommended.

[chemgear]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...cist-1.5306339

An Alberta judge's comments about an expert witness at the trial of parents who were accused in their son's death were "prejudiced, racist, xenophobic and anti-immigrant," says a letter by a group that represents Nigerian doctors in Canada.

The letter is signed by Adeyemi Laosebikan, president of the Canadian Association of Nigerian Physicians and Dentists, and is one of three complaints being investigated by the Canadian Judicial Council, which oversees federally-appointed judges.

"In a multicultural society such as Canada, these comments are disturbing, divisive and unacceptable," the letter reads.

"Professionally, these comments are unethical and socially immoral. A position of influence such as that of a judge should be occupied by individuals who understand and truly apply the universal principles of natural justice, equity and fairness."

[Fuzz]

Pretty bonkers that because a judge would be so ridiculous that they will probably go through yet another trial.

[CaptainCrunch]

That's on the judge, clearly he was influenced by something that was ridiculous.

[Fuzz]

I like it.

[CaptainCrunch]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1184123797252837378

[Cheese]

Great! If nothing else it keeps sucking coin out of their pockets!

[CaptainCrunch]

https://globalnews.ca/news/6071272/2...=%40globalnews

Global health officials will on Thursday announce a partial victory in the decades-long fight to end polio, with a second of three strains of the crippling virus certified as eradicated worldwide.


he ending of wild polio virus type 3 – also known as WPV3 – will be the third human disease-causing pathogen to be eradicated in history, after smallpox was declared wiped out in 1980 and wild polio virus type 2 (WPV2) in 2015.

[CaptainCrunch]

Remember when we'd pretty much wiped out Measles


https://globalnews.ca/news/6267095/s...=%40globalnews

Samoa said on Saturday nearly 90 per cent of eligible people had been vaccinated against measles as it lifted a two-day curfew imposed amid an outbreak that has killed 65 in recent weeks.


There were, however, 103 new cases of measles reported since Friday, Samoa’s Health Ministry said it a statement.


The measles virus has infected almost 4,500 people in the South Pacific nation of just 200,000 since late October. Of those who died, 57 were children under the age of four.

Measles cases are rising worldwide, even in wealthy nations such as Germany and the United States, as parents shun immunization for philosophical or religious reasons, or fears, debunked by doctors, that such vaccines could cause autism.

The World Health Organisation said this week that measles infected nearly 10 million people in 2018 and killed 140,000, mostly children.


The picture for 2019 is even worse, it said, with provisional data up to November showing a three-fold increase in case numbers compared with the same period in 2018.

If you refuse to vaccinate your kid then your kid should be banned from schools, if you refuse to vaccinate and you or your kids get sick, no free health care for you, you pay every cent for treatment.


dummies.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Remember when we'd pretty much wiped out Measles


https://globalnews.ca/news/6267095/s...=%40globalnews











If you refuse to vaccinate your kid then your kid should be banned from schools, if you refuse to vaccinate and you or your kids get sick, no free health care for you, you pay every cent for treatment.


dummies.

Nah, taking them out of school just hurts the kids. Throw the parents in jail and get CPS involved.