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Old 04-26-2016, 11:08 AM   #1
peter12
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Not sure if anyone is following this story. Basically a couple from near Lethbridge is being charged with failing to provide the necessities of life to their 19-month son, as they treated a developing case of bacterial meningitis with natural remedies, and smoothies.

Obviously, disgusting. I find two things interesting.

1) These parents deserve a stiff penalty. Public opinion seems to mainly agree. However, this same sentiment would almost certainly not apply if the defendants were indigenous. Why is this the case?

2) An opportunity to have a national dialogue on pseudo-science, particularly of the medical kind. It really astounds me that in a society as advanced as Canada we still have people who believe that onion powder can stave off viral or bacterial infections. It also blows me away that we don't feel comfortable calling these people what they really are - insane, dangerous lunatics.

Perhaps a conviction will be a step forward on both points.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ield-1.3553197
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:10 AM   #2
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Naturopaths or whatever they are called should be jailed for fraud.

Last edited by habernac; 04-26-2016 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:14 AM   #3
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1) These parents deserve a stiff penalty. Public opinion seems to mainly agree. However, this same sentiment would almost certainly not apply if the defendants were indigenous. Why is this the case?
I seem to recall that there was a similar case to this with a first nations family and child with cancer and there was considerable backlash for that too.

Either way, disgusting. A person's beliefs shouldn't override a child's healthcare but you'll never change it. People like this, anti-vaxxers and the like will always believe they shouldn't be told how to care for their child and that the government shouldn't be allowed to tell them what to do.

Last edited by polak; 04-26-2016 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:17 AM   #4
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Nauturopaths or whatever they are called should be jailed for fraud.
Ditto for "Nutritionists".
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:18 AM   #5
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Right now, it just feels like I can open a supplements store and start dispensing health advice. On top of that, I can pseudo science the crap out of anything because supplements don't fall under a drug category where they have to be tested and proven to work.

Its the biggest money grab of all time.

You could almost run the store to see how much of a sucker people are.

Oh no Mr Smith, if you drink this extract of Shark Urine it goes a long way to curing your cold.

You're kids got the whooping cough, well what you need see is to give him this extract of gorilla semen three times a day until his cough goes away, no don't you be talking to your doctor about this treatment, its a secret and he works for big Pharma.

I tend to think that these supplements should have to go through the same testing and have the same level of proof as drugs that you find in a pharmacy, and they should have warning labels.

This supplement will improve your urine stream

Warning, this supplement might not improve your urine stream.

I tend to think that there should be a heavy certification program put in place for people that want to market this garbage as well.

Oh and if they're prescribing things to deal with for real actual illnesses, then they should have to issue a script with a signature on it so when it goes haywire or does nothing they can be held responsible.
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:19 AM   #6
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Ditto for "Nutritionists".
Can we include all those people on Facebook selling detox/shake weight loss garbage?
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:20 AM   #7
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People like this, anti-vaxxers and the like will always believe they shouldn't be told how to care for their child and that the government shouldn't be allowed to tell them what to do.
This position isn't held just by anti-vaxxers though. I have my kids vaccinated but at the same time I do believe that parents need to have freedom and choices in raising their children.
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:22 AM   #8
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As this case demonstrates, there are certain standards that parents must hold themselves to in regards to the care of their children. So you can choose not to vaccinate your kids, but if they die of whooping cough, you are legally responsible. Not to mention that the price of your irrationality is paid for by your child.
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:23 AM   #9
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I hope they go to jail to set a precedence that herbs and spices aren't an alternative to conventional medicine. They were told by a nurse that their kid potentially had meningitis and to take him to emergency and they did nothing.
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:24 AM   #10
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This position isn't held just by anti-vaxxers though. I have my kids vaccinated but at the same time I do believe that parents need to have freedom and choices in raising their children.
Freedom in raising them is one thing which is fine, but it is quite another to have freedom in choosing how to 'treat' a curable illness and letting your kids die.
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:25 AM   #11
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This position isn't held just by anti-vaxxers though. I have my kids vaccinated but at the same time I do believe that parents need to have freedom and choices in raising their children.
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As this case demonstrates, there are certain standards that parents must hold themselves to in regards to the care of their children. So you can choose not to vaccinate your kids, but if they die of whooping cough, you are legally responsible. Not to mention that the price of your irrationality is paid for by your child.
Disagree because their choices are putting other people at risk. If you don't want to vaccinate your kids, then don't send them to public school or take them to places where they can expose others to that risk. Since that's logistically impossible, then we need to make vaccines mandatory.
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:26 AM   #12
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I hope they go to jail to set a precedence that herbs and spices aren't an alternative to conventional medicine. They were told by a nurse that their kid potentially had meningitis and to take him to emergency and they did nothing.
Not to mention that their naturopath told them that an effective treatment was an echinacea tincture! Why isn't she on the stand with them!?
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:26 AM   #13
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I hope they go to jail to set a precedence that herbs and spices aren't an alternative to conventional medicine. They were told by a nurse that their kid potentially had meningitis and to take him to emergency and they did nothing.
But for the Cannibals out there feeding your kids herbs and spices makes then just delicious which I guess is a plus
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:27 AM   #14
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Disagree because their choices are putting other people at risk. If you don't want to vaccinate your kids, then don't send them to public school or take them to places where they can expose others to that risk. Since that's logistically impossible, then we need to make vaccines mandatory.
You know its funny, I'm pretty much on the right side of the political spectrum and a bit of a freedoms and civil rights hawk, but I so totally agree with this.
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:28 AM   #15
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I read that the father of one of the defendants owns a naturopath business, so it is likely that the defendant was raised (or indoctrinated) at a young age to believe in this sort of thing.

It is so sad though and something has to happen to shut these frauds down.
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:31 AM   #16
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Poor kid. As someone who had meningitis when I was in grade 11 I feel their pain.
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:32 AM   #17
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There is plenty more on this in the on-going skeptic thread, and the don't want to live on this planet thread.

My starting point on these matters is usually here:

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/

https://www.facebook.com/theskepticsguide/?fref=ts

In the news today:

Disabled Daughter of U.S. Faith Healers Wants to See Her Parents Prosecuted

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...edium=facebook
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:33 AM   #18
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Ditto for "Nutritionists".
Isn't a nutritionist a recognized profession basing their advice on scientific facts?
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:36 AM   #19
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Disagree because their choices are putting other people at risk. If you don't want to vaccinate your kids, then don't send them to public school or take them to places where they can expose others to that risk. Since that's logistically impossible, then we need to make vaccines mandatory.
Yeah, of course. There was more than a hint of sarcasm in my post.
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:36 AM   #20
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Isn't a nutritionist a recognized profession basing their advice on scientific facts?
No, that's a Registered Dietician. Nutritionists aren't real things.

It's a common and unfortunate misconception though.
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