Johnny Gaudreau: Trade or Keep?

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Slava

Should have traded Gaudreau a couple seasons ago when they could send him to Ottawa and draft Brady. Having both Tkachuks would've been amazing.

Am I wrong, or does Gaudreau not still have significantly more value than Brady?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Very surprising to see an article like this from Haynes.

A sign of internal temperatures changing? You don't often see this kind of article from the local guys out of the blue like this.

Out of the blue? Gaudreau has looked god awful this year. It was only a matter of time imo before a media member posted this. I almost posted something similar before the game yesterday.

After two straight shutouts is the perfect time to wonder if our wee star forward is the answer.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

That is true, but I feel most people want to trade Johnny out of anger for the team's lack of success thus far. Bring up this topic 2 months ago and you'd get run off the forum.

Now our star player is in the midst of a slump, and the go-to action is trade him. Typical Canadian hockey fan response. What if the new guy he's traded for sucks worse? With Gaudreau we know what we are getting and have witnessed him reach tiers very few other Flames' players ever have, and he's done so consistently. For less then $7million.

I am against trading Gaudreau until at the very earliest during the off-season after he has demonstrated he's either completely checked out from the team, or demands a trade. And even then it would have to be a king's ransom that no GM could possibly resist. But in the midst of a losing streak where the entire team is sucking? We've all witnessed at Flames' fans what happens during panic trades. Let's not repeat that again.

I don't think it's just lack of success. Visually, he just hasn't been making an impact. Mostly I think that's about checking.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Don't think it'll be as disastrous as the Phaneuf trade, but in the same ballpark, yes. A couple of middle 6 players, a non-first round pick, and a minor league nobody.

Why on earth would you think that? Being a pessimistic just for the sake of it?

Did you miss the Hamilton trade? Our GM May suck at UFAs but he kills it often in trades .

[rohara66]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

https://twitter.com/user/status/1196425230761238529

What % of Calgarys shots are muffins from the perimeter?


Pretty much all of them from the last 2 weeks. Its not wonder their shooting % is in the basement.

[Strange Brew]

Can you win a Stanley Cup if Johnny Gaudreau is your best player? No, not ion my opinion and I have never really thought so although once in a while his play is so magical that I start to believe.

Can you win a Cup with 36 year old Mark Giordano as your best player? No, not from what I've seen this year.

Can you win with Lindholm as your best player? No, not even close.

Can you win with Tkachuk as your best player? There's a glimmer of hope there, but no, not in my opinion. He plays the wrong position and while he should be a star player for years, he's not at that level IMO.

So I guess if you trade Gaudreau, it better be for prospects and/or picks from a lottery team so you have the chance of recouping an elite player in return.

It's such a shame. Getting Gaudreau in the 4th round should have been pennnies from heaven for this team. A jumpstart to a rebuild that would give them a leg up in building a contender. But instead of being an amazing offensive catalyst and a key component, the focus has been on trading picks for adding complementary players.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Why on earth would you think that? Being a pessimistic just for the sake of it?

Did you miss the Hamilton trade? Our GM May suck at UFAs but he kills it often in trades .

The difference is that trading Gaudreau right now is a panic move. And you tend to fail more often than not in that scenario. A Gaudreau trade right now would be more likely to favour the Phaneuf end of the scale than the Hamilton end. Though, it would be very difficult for it to be as disastrous.

[Inglewood Jack]

what type of offensive numbers are we expecting from Monahan if Johnny's out the door? if you dump one you may as well do both cause they're pretty Sedin-like in how they are more than the sum of their parts.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Can you win a Stanley Cup if Johnny Gaudreau is your best player? No, not ion my opinion and I have never really thought so although once in a while his play is so magical that I start to believe.

Can you win a Cup with 36 year old Mark Giordano as your best player? No, not from what I've seen this year.

Can you win with Lindholm as your best player? No, not even close.

Can you win with Tkachuk as your best player? There's a glimmer of hope there, but no, not in my opinion. He plays the wrong position and while he should be a star player for years, he's not at that level IMO.

So I guess if you trade Gaudreau, it better be for prospects and/or picks from a lottery team so you have the chance of recouping an elite player in return.

It's such a shame. Getting Gaudreau in the 4th round should have been pennnies from heaven for this team. A jumpstart to a rebuild that would give them a leg up in building a contender. But instead of being an amazing offensive catalyst and a key component, the focus has been on trading picks for adding complementary players.

If Sam Bennett panned out to be the 70-80 point 1C that he was projected to be, he could definitely have been the person to take us to the promised land with how well we have drafted and developed all the complementary players you talked about.

That draft pick set us back years - although there was no other option at the time. Just unlucky that we didn't hit when we really really needed to. If we had Leon Draisaitl instead, I think we'd be extremely close.

I think trading for Hamilton in 2015 was our biggest mistake - a Barzal or Connor would look real good right now. We thought we were way closer than we actually were after 18 year old Sam Bennett, but unfortunately that's how it goes sometimes.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It's such a shame. Getting Gaudreau in the 4th round should have been pennnies from heaven for this team. A jumpstart to a rebuild that would give them a leg up in building a contender. But instead of being an amazing offensive catalyst and a key component, the focus has been on trading picks for adding complementary players.

TBF, if Sam Bennett becomes an elite C, as his draft position and ranking suggested, Gaudreau becomes a guy like Marchand or Kucherov - a highly skilled winger who is "found money" and can play with a top line centre. Or even if he becomes a really good second line C (Sam Reinhart is getting better and better, see also Dylan Larkin).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

what type of offensive numbers are we expecting from Monahan if Johnny's out the door? if you dump one you may as well do both cause they're pretty Sedin-like in how they are more than the sum of their parts.

I think Monahan and Tkachuk would mesh pretty well. But the team gets way thinner.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Kind of sad in middle of November this thread exists. Johnny Gaudreau has been the sole reason to watch this team play for the last six seasons. He's made Monahan (a 2nd line center) at times actually look like a bonafide 1st line center and has been the catalyst for any success this team has had since he joined the team. He was a 4th round gift from the hockey gods and after a few months of struggling and the fanbase is saying stuff like you can't win with him (despite the fact they only win when he plays well) and can't get rid of him fast enough. It's just sad and people wonder why top players would rather play in the US than Canada and this is exhibit A.

I think this is the results of Bennett not panning out, and becoming that #1 C that the team so desperately needs. You need centre depth to be a truly great team, and the Flames lack it, which is why they are having such a ####ty 2019 overall.

Gaudreau is a great player, but can't be the #1 player if this team is going to make any real noise, and contend for the cup. With his size, and style of play, he can't be the player to carry the team when it's playoff style hockey. He needs stronger players with talent that can do that so he can compliment for them.

Trading Gaudreau would be done to draw in the players necessary to have the team improve in the long run. If the Flames aren't going to be able to take the next step while he's still around, then you gotta get the most you can out of him so then his asset can benefit the franchise down the road.

But you only trade Gaudreau when you get a really strong offer for him. He's an All-Star player with age on his side and years on his contract still, so GMs have to be willing to give up a lot to acquire him. No need to rush trading him. This is why off-season is likely the best time to do it if it's gonna be done.

Plus it's not absolutely necessary to trade him. If using other tradable assets can draw in that #1 C and other offensive pieces in both the near and long term, then Gaudreau can still be kept, and Monahan won't be the only top 6 centre on the team, which is the main problem.

[Northendzone]

i had a quick look and over his career hall is a .91 ppg while johnny is .97.

but to me if you were hall and got traded, why would you sign a long term deal without testing the market? and if you are the flames are you going to roll the dice you can resign him and trade away a guy who has a contract for a few more years

the flames are already up against the cap and johnny has a cap friendly deal relative to his historical production. Would the flames not have to move around a bunch of parts to get hall for $9m plus per year?

Originally Posted by 868904

I’ve been thinking about this for a few days now:

Gaudreau and Monahan

For Hall and Hischer

For the Devils, they get a local boy American star who can also help Jack Hughes. Monahan is Gaudreau’s partner in crime and also gives the Devils some size up the middle replacing the smaller Hischer.

For the Flames, they have to be able to talk extension with Hall and have a reasonable sense that they can sign him. Hischer replaces Monahan at the centre position and it is a bit of a gamble for both teams. Hischer signed a big extension in the Summer that kicks in next year but he hasn’t exactly produced like a $7 million player yet. We know that in the right mood and situation, Hall can be productive even with a 50 point Hischer but for the Flames the hope is Hischer will be more than that.

Hischer isn’t an ideal number 1 centre, he’s probably a second line centre, but if he can anchor a second line with Hall, then Lindholm can centre Tkachuk on the first line and you’ve got your top pairs for the top lines.

[Movechkin]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think Monahan and Tkachuk would mesh pretty well. But the team gets way thinner.

They'd mesh well if you were looking for something that's slower than frozen molasses. They need some power skating coaching.

[bax]

Last year as a team Calgary shooting percentage was 10.9%

This year they are at shooting at 8%. Nobody in the league was that bad last year over a full season (although Buffalo was close). They are due to regress back to the mean a little bit here. Long story short- not as good as they were last year, not as bad as they look this year.

Even just looking at Monahan and Gaudreau alone. Monahan is shooting at 8.5% and Gaudreau is shooting at 7.9%. Career averages for those guys are 14.8% and 12.5%. That a difference of 9 goals for Monahan and 3 goals for Gaudreau. They are bound to come back at some point.

That 12 extra goals would bump them from 18th in the league in GF to tied for 4th. It's a tight, tight league. I don't think they should be panicking yet.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

TBF, if Sam Bennett becomes an elite C, as his draft position and ranking suggested, Gaudreau becomes a guy like Marchand or Kucherov - a highly skilled winger who is "found money" and can play with a top line centre. Or even if he becomes a really good second line C (Sam Reinhart is getting better and better, see also Dylan Larkin).

I’m thinking back to Bennett’s early years, and you know what? He never would have been the 90 point guy we had envisioned, but this team NEVER spent time developing him. Not at the AHL level, not at the NHL level.

We’ve all argued back and forth endlessly about this, but I still think that this team made a huge error in forming and sticking with the 3M line as the default 2nd line. Bennett, due to the !@#$ depth this mediocre team has always had never got a mentor in the same way Monahan and Gaudreau did. He never got a Cammalleri or a Hudler. Hell, he never even got a Glencross. After he was moved off the Backlund-Frolik line, he was in a barren wasteland and asked to be the best player on his line, and as we can all see he wasn’t capable of doing that.

Why the hell didn’t this team commit to developing Bennett at centre? Hell, why wasn’t it Tkachuk-Bennett-Frolik? Simple - they prioritized winning today ahead of player development - which has proven to be a huge misstep for this organization.

I am not looking to argue what Bennett is or what he could be, just pointing out that this team shortchanged the rebuild. Both in how they dealt away draft picks with things like the Elliott and Hamonic trades, as well as with how they handled player development at the NHL level, as well as the AHL level. Other teams develop players at the NHL level. They take lumps with their players, they use them as teaching moments. With our youngsters - Bennett, Dube, Mangiapane, Kylington, Andersson, Jankowski - the leash has ALWAYS been short. Take a penalty? Benched. Cost a goal against? Benched/demoted down the lineup.

This team shortchanged the rebuild, and other teams do a MUCH better job of building their young players up. The Flames have never taken a long-term approach with player development, and it shows.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

what type of offensive numbers are we expecting from Monahan if Johnny's out the door? if you dump one you may as well do both cause they're pretty Sedin-like in how they are more than the sum of their parts.

He had a 22-goal rookie season without Gaudreau. But he's a finisher. If you panic and trade Gaudreau, you need to be sure you have another playmaker who can set him up.

[SeanCharles]

Call me crazy but the last players I want to trade are Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm or Tkachuk up front.

Those 4, Rittich and our young dmen should be the building blocks of our team moving forward.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Call me crazy but the last players I want to trade are Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm or Tkachuk up front.

Those 4, Rittich and our young dmen should be the building blocks of our team moving forward.

Yep.

I’m not turning on the current players when such glaring, structural issues exist on the current roster.

1. Missing a top six centre
2. Missing a top six winger
3. $4.3M of dead cap in Frolik
4. $5.25M 4th line LW

I just don’t know how Treliving addresses both #1 and #2. Tree has to believe in the core he has, either rightly or wrongly - but to give his core an actual shot, #1 and #2 need to be addressed, and in the process #3 has to be moved from a cap perspective.

[pepper24]

What a lame click bait article by Haynes. The guy used to be good and balanced. Maybe his new employer is wanting that.

Gaudreau is the least of the Flames problems. 18 points in 23 games during this "dry spell" or "slow start". A point a game player his entire career at a great cap hit. He'll find his game soon. I'm not worried about him.

The Flames problems is lack of depth with middle 6 forwards. Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk aren't the issues, it's the players around them. If they go cold there is no one to pick up their slack. We need to build around those 4 forwards, not getting rid of any of them.

I don't blame Treliving either. He's tried to address forward depth by adding Kadri. Hopefully he has a plan to address this.