Players that you think have played their final year with the Flames? (18-19 Edition)

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

What you're actually saying is that Giordano "became elite" at age 30 the exact same year he started playing with TJ Brodie.

It's not a coincidence.

And he stayed elite when he stopped playing with Brodie while Brodie collasped.

Meanwhile the guy who played with Brodie last year and struggled has completely turned his game around with a new partner.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

What you're actually saying is that Giordano "became elite" at age 30 the exact same year he started playing with TJ Brodie.

It's not a coincidence.

I don't think there's a question that Brodie helps Gio. I think it's highly debatable that Gio needs him to be elite. I also think Brodie clearly struggles when away from Gio for any extended period of time, whereas Gio at best drops from elite to really really good away from Brodie. Gio-Hamilton was pretty darned good.

The fact remains that Brodie's contract is up, and Gio's isn't. So I'm kind of unclear on the debate. It's really Hamonic, Brodie, keeping neither or trying to work out something at the expense of one of the kids. I suspect that Brodie gets you a better return, plus his skill set seems to be replicated more by the kids than Hamonic's (ignoring R/L stuff).

[PeteMoss]

To answer the question in the thread:

Stone - buyout
Smith

Those two are certain

Prout very likely
Hathaway unless he'll come back for slightly above minimum contract


Possible they buyout Neal - save about $3 million off the cap.
Could see one of the young d moved for an impact forward

[TheScorpion]

I'd be surprised if the Flames exercised a buyout on anyone this summer. Stone can probably be dealt with relative ease in the summer, while Neal is shooting 4% and will likely be given another kick at the can.

[Flash Walken]

Brad Treliving

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I'd be surprised if the Flames exercised a buyout on anyone this summer. Stone can probably be dealt with relative ease in the summer, while Neal is shooting 4% and will likely be given another kick at the can.

Who is going to take on Stone and his contract? The only way you trade him is by taking on someone else's bad contract IMHO

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

And he stayed elite when he stopped playing with Brodie while Brodie collasped.

Maybe that's because we spent major assets on acquiring another defenseman who is one of the better 5v5 players in the league. The amount of credit Dougie Hamilton doesn't get is baffling.

Of course our top pair was better than our second pair.

Meanwhile the guy who played with Brodie last year and struggled has completely turned his game around with a new partner.

There are a dozen factors that played into the overall struggles of that Brodie - Hamonic pair. It can not be broken down into something as simple as "Giordano carrys Brodie". If Hamonic is as great defensively as people claim why couldn't he "carry Brodie"?

Here are the things that factored into that pair's struggles:

- Hamonic individually did not play very well for half that season.
- Brodie individually had the worst ~two month stretch of his career - that includes many other months without Giordano
- Brodie is more comfortable breaking the puck out on the right
- Brodie is offensively more creative creating offense on the right
- Gulutzan's offensive system never worked for Brodie, period. In fact it barely worked for Giordano either. The only guy who benefitted from that system offensively was Hamilton.
- Hamonic is an offensive black hole which never worked with Brodie who would always set up Hamonic only for that to kill possessions because Hamonic can't shoot. Hanifin doesn't set up Hamonic as often.
- Gulutzan's slow breakout never worked for Brodie because he is a skating defenseman who likes the long pass
- When that pair actually did start to build chemistry and individually play well, team offense dried up, masking their strong play. And this stretch of strong play together was cut short by Ryan Reeves ending Brodie's season

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Who is going to take on Stone and his contract? The only way you trade him is by taking on someone else's bad contract IMHO

It's a bad contract, but not that bad of one. $3.5 million for one year is hardly a crutch. I could see the Flames trading Stone for a similar forward also expiring in 2020, perhaps a player like Vladimir Sobotka (who also makes $3.5 million). Rationale being the Flames could use that money more on a forward than on a defenseman.

Edit: alternatively they could deal him to a team in need of salary to reach the floor. Ottawa needs RHD and is well below the cap. Less seriously, I could also see Melnyk giving him #61 just to help with jersey sales.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Who is going to take on Stone and his contract? The only way you trade him is by taking on someone else's bad contract IMHO

Erik Gudbranson was moved yesterday. If a team is willing to take on Erik Gudbranson, finding a trade partner for Michael Stone will pose no problems at all.

But I suspect he may be done.

[flamesfever]

I believe we will attempt to keep Hathaway for his toughness, providing his future salary demands are not too high.

I believe some attempt will be made to appease and keep Frolik, primarily for his defensive capability and chemistry with Backlund.

I can see us keeping Stone...again if his future salary demands are not excessive.

I think we are stuck with Neal, and hopefully he begins to earn a good part of his salary.

At this point i think the only players that will not be here next year are Prout and Smith.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Maybe that's because we spent major assets on acquiring another defenseman who is one of the better 5v5 players in the league. The amount of credit Dougie Hamilton doesn't get is baffling.

Of course our top pair was better than our second pair.



There are a dozen factors that played into the overall struggles of that Brodie - Hamonic pair. It can not be broken down into something as simple as "Giordano carrys Brodie". If Hamonic is as great defensively as people claim why couldn't he "carry Brodie"?

Here are the things that factored into that pair's struggles:

- Hamonic individually did not play very well for half that season.
- Brodie individually had the worst ~two month stretch of his career - that includes many other months without Giordano
- Brodie is more comfortable breaking the puck out on the right
- Brodie is offensively more creative creating offense on the right
- Gulutzan's offensive system never worked for Brodie, period. In fact it barely worked for Giordano either. The only guy who benefitted from that system offensively was Hamilton.
- Hamonic is an offensive black hole which never worked with Brodie who would always set up Hamonic only for that to kill possessions because Hamonic can't shoot. Hanifin doesn't set up Hamonic as often.
- Gulutzan's slow breakout never worked for Brodie because he is a skating defenseman who likes the long pass
- When that pair actually did start to build chemistry and individually play well, team offense dried up, masking their strong play. And this stretch of strong play together was cut short by Ryan Reeves ending Brodie's season

I think, the further we get away from it, the GG years appear to just be an aberration on the majority of our players performance records.

The systems he tried to instill stagnated many players development, and the few who did improve did so largely inspite of GG's system not because of it.

[The Yen Man]

Smith - guy will probably get a PTO somewhere else or retire; my mind would be blown if he somehow is still part of next year's team
Brodie - traded for a first round pick to free up cap space
Frolik - gets moved for a mid round pick or mid level propect
Lazar - traded for a later round pick
Sigalet - fingers crossed this one actually happens
Jeff Ward - I think he will get a head coaching gig somewhere

[flamesfever]

I believe the thing that will upset this team the most will be if we can't get Brodie to resign with a sizable discount in order to stay with Gio.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

To answer the question in the thread:

Stone - buyout
Smith

Those two are certain

Prout very likely
Hathaway unless he'll come back for slightly above minimum contract


Possible they buyout Neal - save about $3 million off the cap.
Could see one of the young d moved for an impact forward

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Who is going to take on Stone and his contract? The only way you trade him is by taking on someone else's bad contract IMHO

I don't agree with this take at all. Stone is an NHL defenseman, and there is work for him in the NHL at $3.5M. And I would be more than happy with him as our #7.

But if you wanted to move him, a buyout makes no sense because that would put $1.75M on the books for 2 years. Better to simply retain half his salary (for 1 year), and find a trading partner for him at $1.75M. And there would be plenty of interest at that price.

I would bet that Vegas would be interested. And someone mentioned Ottawa - they need to get to the floor and ice a hockey team next year. Stone, at anywhere between $1.75M and $3.5M, would generate plenty of interest. And probably bring us back a reasonable pick - like a 4th, to replace the one we sent to LA.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Erik Gudbranson was moved yesterday. If a team is willing to take on Erik Gudbranson, finding a trade partner for Michael Stone will pose no problems at all.

But I suspect he may be done.

That was bad contract for bad contract. If the Flames want to take on an equally bad contract - yes they can do that.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't agree with this take at all. Stone is an NHL defenseman, and there is work for him in the NHL at $3.5M. And I would be more than happy with him as our #7.

But if you wanted to move him, a buyout makes no sense because that would put $1.75M on the books for 2 years. Better to simply retain half his salary (for 1 year), and find a trading partner for him at $1.75M. And there would be plenty of interest at that price.

I would bet that Vegas would be interested. And someone mentioned Ottawa - they need to get to the floor and ice a hockey team next year. Stone, at anywhere between $1.75M and $3.5M, would generate plenty of interest. And probably bring us back a reasonable pick - like a 4th, to replace the one we sent to LA.

How many teams have guys making $1.75M as a 6th or 7th d that they've willingly took on.

[LWcrowfoot]

Stone has one year left, if healthy he's a useful player. Buyout doesn't make sense at all. The Flames already have Brouwer on the books for 1.5 until 2022, why add to that.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

That was bad contract for bad contract. If the Flames want to take on an equally bad contract - yes they can do that.

They can get a lot more back than a bad contract for Michael Stone. My point was that he is worth a boatload more than possibly the worst defenseman in the NHL who was just moved.

There will be no issue trading Stone if the Flames choose to do so.

[Hoop27]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Can you imagine if the Flames brought Smith back for another year on a cheap contract, citing limited options on the market that fit the team's salary cap situation?

If he keeps figuring it out why not?

[LWcrowfoot]

Originally Posted by Hoop27

If he keeps figuring it out why not?

Because the Flames need to find a long term solution in net. Mike Smith is 37 in three weeks, even if he "finds his game" it's pretty easy for a 37 year old player to lose that game rather easily once more.

Treliving's built a hell of a team but he built it on some unproven and old sand. Let's try to get a true foundation in net.