Question

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GGG

Given the knowledge that a tip out exists if you go to a restaurant and don't tip enough to cover tip out you are stealing from this person.

If you are gleefully unaware of how the restaurant industry works than you just are ignorant and should educate yourself.

If you speings1 someone over a lack of ranch dressing and they have to pay to serve you you are stealing from them.

I have to say, I'm not nearly as familiar with the tip-out as I thought I was and I worked in restaurants for a while. My how things have changed.

You paid your tipout out of what you were tipped, not the bill, so if you didnt get tipped anything nobody gets tipped anything.

I'm struggling with this right now because I've typically been a (admittedly naively) generous tipper.

But at my usual haunts prices are going up, I know wages are going up and to be my usual tipper is getting more and more expensive and I've been having to cut back a fair bit.

Because as the price is going up that 15%-20% tip is getting pretty big.

I dont want to become a cheap tipper but its beginning to look unavoidable.

[nfotiu]

Why on earth did Alberta go to a high minimum wage where tips weren't counted towards that minimum wage? Is the restaurant server lobby strong in Alberta? That just doesn't make any sense to me.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by SebC

If you've decided that servers were making exactly the right amount of money before, what you should do is figure out the number of clients a server has per hour, divide $5 by that number (or weigh your contribution to their gross salse), and reduce your tip by that amount. Your math only works if servers make roughly half of their income from tips.

Your math is a bit off. You should only reduce the percentage of the tip that goes to the server by the amount you calculated (if you've decided they were paid appropriately before) since they will still have tip out no matter what you tip.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Go Aussie style. Get a bunch of numbers, have people order at the bar, just have runners to deliver food to the numbers...Eliminate tipping altogether. Get rid of 2/3rds of the front of house. 😉

So become a fast casual restaurant? Surprising no one has thought of that yet, I bet it would be popular.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

So become a fast casual restaurant? Surprising no one has thought of that yet, I bet it would be popular.

Nando's!

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Locke

I have to say, I'm not nearly as familiar with the tip-out as I thought I was and I worked in restaurants for a while. My how things have changed.

You paid your tipout out of what you were tipped, not the bill, so if you didnt get tipped anything nobody gets tipped anything.

I'm struggling with this right now because I've typically been a (admittedly naively) generous tipper.

But at my usual haunts prices are going up, I know wages are going up and to be my usual tipper is getting more and more expensive and I've been having to cut back a fair bit.

Because as the price is going up that 15%-20% tip is getting pretty big.

I dont want to become a cheap tipper but its beginning to look unavoidable.

Ya to be honest as prices go up and we know wages have gone up it is my opinion that tips will go down to the 10% or lower and no one should feel any shame for that. If someone is losing money due to tip out then those places should change their system. The other option is to just not go out anymore which a lot of people will start doing because of the price.

For me I have significantly cut back my dining out. Especially with things like skip the dishes and such that allow for delivery from a lot of places if I don’t want to cook that’s a far better option.

[Canehdianman]

So what's the consensus now?

If I used to tip 15%, can I drop that to 10% with the increase to minimum wage? 5%?

[troutman]

I never worked in a kitchen (line cook/dishwasher) where we got one red cent from tip outs, but that was in the 80s.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by GGG

But if on a $500 bill the group throws in bills and one guy is real cheap and there is only $510 the server is out 15-30 bucks depending on tip out.

But yes increasing your tip only goes to the waitress though anyone who tips less than 6% or so to cover tip outs is a legitimately horrible person.

Originally Posted by GGG

Given the knowledge that a tip out exists if you go to a restaurant and don't tip enough to cover tip out you are stealing from this person.

If you are gleefully unaware of how the restaurant industry works than you just are ignorant and should educate yourself.

If you speings1 someone over a lack of ranch dressing and they have to pay to serve you you are stealing from them.

The way I see it is, if someone truly earned that 0% tip, not just for some minor slight like only bringing 4 instead of 5 ranch sides, but truly sucked at the whole series of it and the food was bad. Well then they deserve zero, they can take it up with their manager and back of the house, this person will quickly realize they are a crap server and move to another vocation freeing up that server spot for someone who isn't crap.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by GGG

If you are gleefully unaware of how the restaurant industry works than you just are ignorant and should educate yourself.

What other industry expects their patrons to know the intricacies of their business practises, and then shames them if they don't?

People are there to have a nice meal and a nice time...forcing patrons to be part of these mystical financial gymnastics is the complete opposite of what a customer-focused experience at a restaurant should be.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Table 5

What other industry expects their patrons to know the intricacies of their business practises, and then shames them if they don't?

People are there to have a nice meal and a nice time...forcing patrons to be part of these mystical financial gymnastics is the complete opposite of what a customer-focused experience at a restaurant should be.

agreed, unless they start posting something on the bill telling us the tip out and what percent goes where. Or allow me to say what percent goes where, food was terrific but service was meh, then 90% of my tip goes to the chef!

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Swarly

The way I see it is, if someone truly earned that 0% tip, not just for some minor slight like only bringing 4 instead of 5 ranch sides, but truly sucked at the whole series of it and the food was bad. Well then they deserve zero, they can take it up with their manager and back of the house, this person will quickly realize they are a crap server and move to another vocation freeing up that server spot for someone who isn't crap.

I agree with you but I hate that it is the guests job to essentially conduct performance reviews.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Table 5

What other industry expects their patrons to know the intricacies of their business practises, and then shames them if they don't?

People are there to have a nice meal and a nice time...forcing patrons to be part of these mystical financial gymnastics is the complete opposite of what a customer-focused experience at a restaurant should be.

An industry where you are expected to tip in the first place. No tipping would be a much better model but people are still price sensitive so unless it was legislated it's not feasible. So if you are going against a cultural norm (tipping 15-18%) the obligation is on you to understamd why that norm exists and understand the consequences of violating said norm.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Table 5

What other industry expects their patrons to know the intricacies of their business practises, and then shames them if they don't?

People are there to have a nice meal and a nice time...forcing patrons to be part of these mystical financial gymnastics is the complete opposite of what a customer-focused experience at a restaurant should be.

I think tips should be based on the roll of a die!

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Swarly

The way I see it is, if someone truly earned that 0% tip, not just for some minor slight like only bringing 4 instead of 5 ranch sides, but truly sucked at the whole series of it and the food was bad. Well then they deserve zero, they can take it up with their manager and back of the house, this person will quickly realize they are a crap server and move to another vocation freeing up that server spot for someone who isn't crap.

You should be taking it up with their manager if it means that much to you. If the guy bagging groceries does a poor job you don't punish him you punish the company. Same with the vast majority of interactions you have. And if the food was bad how is that the servers fault. You only punish them because of the tip out. The management of the restaurant determines the quality of your experience in the way they train and expect their servers to perform.

Using tipping as an evaluation of performance is an awful practice. I'm settling in to a flat rate 8-10% depending on style of restaurant regardless of quality.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by GGG

You should be taking it up with their manager if it means that much to you. If the guy bagging groceries does a poor job you don't punish him you punish the company. Same with the vast majority of interactions you have. And if the food was bad how is that the servers fault. You only punish them because of the tip out. The management of the restaurant determines the quality of your experience in the way they train and expect their servers to perform.

Using tipping as an evaluation of performance is an awful practice. I'm settling in to a flat rate 8-10% depending on style of restaurant regardless of quality.

Isn't that exactly what this industry is forcing us to do? That's the entire point, they decided they aren't going to pay their staff enough so they have passed that roll on to us of evaluating and paying their employee based on performance. The good servers make tips, are happy and stay. The bad servers make no tips, feel sadness, and leave.

Anyway, now they are paid a 'living wage', thanks to the NDP. So giving 0% tip for complete crap service is fine. I've been shifting my tipping down, used to give 20% for good service, now I'm at 10% for good service, 8% usually given.


add: don't get me wrong here, I'm not some cheap a-hole who loves screwing servers out of tips and laughing about how they paid for my meal. I eat out a lot and I find 99.9% of servers to be acceptable or better, either they are friendly and it makes up for a couple mistakes. Or maybe they chat less but nail my order and timing. The times I have left zero tip for a server I can count on one hand and still have most my fingers left. My point is we shouldn't be held hostage to pay a 'gratuity' if it was truly horrible service all around. If more people felt comfortable dropping the tip percent right down for bad service then the problem servers would be gone.

[Smartcar]

Originally Posted by manwiches

My dad's restaurant, we used to tip out 3.5%. When he sold it, and I awkwardly stuck around for a few months, they bumped it up to 5%.

Thanks, do you know how it was distributed?

[iggy_oi]

I find it interesting that so many people are adjusting their tips with the minimum wage, simply because I highly doubt people were previously asking their servers whether or not they were being paid minimum wage and then tipping accordingly. I can understand lowering your tip based on affordability relative to the cost of the service, but there is no magical formula to determine what a person should be tipped relative to their wage. It’s (almost)always optional, when you go on vacation somewhere out of province how many people tip according to the local minimum wage?

[Muta]

That's what I loved about Asia and the South Pacific countries - no tipping required. Everyone in the industry makes a living wage as is. It's so much easier and efficient.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

#### off. The restaurant is stealing from the person. Literally robbing Peter to pay Paul.


EDIT: It isn't being "gleefully unaware" of how the system works. It's a broken system. There's one price on the bill you are obligated to pay, everything else is added on at my discretion. If that isn't enough to pay the staff, that isn't my problem. I could put $0 and if that results in a person not getting paid enough, that is their employers fault and should be their problem, not mine.

I disagree. You might not be gleefully unaware of our system, but you're definitely ignoring it. If tipping wasn't normal staff would be paid more and prices on the menu would be higher. So you'd be paying more one way or another. Sliding by with your attitude gives you a deal no one else gets. It's not really fair. If you have a problem with the service or product that's one thing. But to just wander into a restaurant and not tip as a rule is totally cheap and not fair to anyone.