The Anti GMO movement, is it the new Kony 2012?

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Uncarved

I think a lot of people are slightly uneducated on the matter and lump all the GMO products together. I currently limiting my intake of GMO's

I don't get it?

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

I agree you have a point about the pesticides. Trace amounts are one thing, but making a pesticide-resistant crop so you can use more pesticide doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

But that was not the reason for making a pesticide resistant crop. It's entirely wrong actually, as Monsanto's GMO varieties don't tolerate more glyphosate, they just tolerate glyphosate period. Prior to developing this trait, glyphosate would wipe out those crops as it is a non-selective herbicide, killing every plant it comes into contact with. It's this exact reason that glyphosate tolerant crops had such appeal to growers. They required less pesticide than conventional varieties, because the pesticides that canola/corn/soybeans are naturally tolerant to (we were using pesticides on crops long before GMOs were introduced) are all selective in the weeds they kill, meaning multiple applications of different pesticides on each crop.

TBQH, I don't understand the anti-GMO movement. What are the cons of GMO crops?

[-TC-]

I have a rabid anti-GMO person at my yoga studio...and she's bought into all the bs hype.

I just leave when she starts her rants

[photon]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

TBQH, I don't understand the anti-GMO movement. What are the cons of GMO crops?

It's probably the same motivation that drives the anti-vaccination movement or the anti-AGW movement. FUD sown by an agenda. Most people are honest in their positions, it's just that human's natural tenancy is to selectively find things rationalize our positions rather than form our positions out of rationality; it's just the way our brain works.

What gets me is how someone can take an anti-GMO position (or even a blanket pro-GMO position).

GMO isn't a single thing, it's a process.

Being anti-GMO is like being anti-Farming. There are some framing practices that I'm sure are harmful, but that doesn't mean ALL farming is harmful.

I mean I can genetically alter corn to produce nitroglycerin to make explosive ears of corn and the deaths in the produce isle and on roadside stands are bad, but that doesn't mean the process of genetically altering corn is bad.

Things are much more complex than a simple GMO is bad/good.

[flamefan74]

Working in the ag industry, what drives me nuts is the Monsanto hate from the anti-gmo crowd. Where is the hate for the other companies making gmo crops such as Bayer? Never any mention of them, just Monsanto.

Like the Fonz said, Roundup Ready crops actually use less chemical than conventional varieties. And considering some of the chemicals that get sprayed on conventional crops, I would rather have them sprayed with Roundup.

[The Fonz]

For the record, the European Union closed the border to lentils containing glyphosate residue in 2011. There is no such thing as a "RoundupReady" Lentil, but guys were using roundup as a pre-harvest desiccant on lentil crops so that they could get in sooner with the combines. There was FAR more concern over this, as Roundup applications were being done within weeks of harvest.

Yet the EU dropped the glyphosate ban the year after they invoked it. Roundup applications do not pose a threat, even days prior to going thru the combine and into the bin. It is not a residual product.

So unless there is another angle to target GMOs from... I don't get it.

And before anyone brings bees into this, Monsanto does not produce a product that kills bees. Thats garbage.

[Hatter]

The anti-GMO crazies are wack. Human beings have been selectively breeding things since the dawn of agriculture. Genetic modification is simply an improvement of this technique.

Genetic crossbreeding and modification have, and will continue to save billions of lives.

[ripTDR]

Originally Posted by Hatter

The anti-GMO crazies are wack. Human beings have been selectively breeding things since the dawn of agriculture. Genetic modification is simply an improvement of this technique.

Genetic crossbreeding and modification have, and will continue to save billions of lives.

Curious. Could you explain further?

[Thor]

Yeah this is one of the biggest misconceptions about GMO, the reason Monsanto and others are investing so heavily into this is because GMO will mean less spraying of crops, less environmental harm and is the future of not only agriculture but a host of other important areas like medicine.

Just with BT corn farmers had decreased their spraying by a HUGE amount, and these crops deal with a pest with an ingenious method which is harmless to humans and according to research good for the enviornment.

People seem to ignore that in the US it takes a long time to get GMO to the field, tough stringent approvals with the FDA, EPA and DOH. It costs 100's of millions in research and to suggest these big companies should not be allowed to patent is absurd.

Not to mention Africa which is the capital of organic farming, since those farmers cannot afford fancy seeds, pesticides, etc.. They struggle to feed their famlies, can't get out of poverty because all their efforts are to just stay alive, not grow healthy crops which can be sold and make their lives better.

Anti GMOers are not only messing with modern western world, but doing everything in their power to keep Africa from this GMO scourge, assuring starving poor people to stay that way.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by ripTDR

Curious. Could you explain further?

This does an excellent job on the history of it:

http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowl...pment-25885295

Comparing Classical Breeding and Crop Breeding Through Genetic Engineering
Crops produced through genetic engineering are sometimes referred to as genetically modified organisms. The term genetic modification, and so-called genetically modified organisms (GMOs) is frequently misused. All types (organic, conventional) of agriculture modify the genes of plants so that they will have desirable traits. The difference is that traditional forms of breeding change the plant's genetics indirectly by selecting plants with specific traits, while genetic engineering changes the traits by making changes directly to the DNA. In traditional breeding, crosses are made in a relatively uncontrolled manner. The breeder chooses the parents to cross, but at the genetic level, the results are unpredictable. DNA from the parents recombines randomly. In contrast, genetic engineering permits highly targeted transfer of genes, quick and efficient tracking of genes in new varieties, and ultimately increased efficiency in developing new crop varieties with new and desirable traits.

Some images that show you the dramatic difference of food today compared to 10,000 years ago. The wild mustard plant is the most fascinating story of all, how much we owe to this one wild plant is astounding, considering that was done by ancient farmers cross breeding.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Uncarved

Right now it is very hard to distinguish between any of the different type of GMO foods, and have no idea what is getting blended together. Why should someone that has an allergy to fish have to worry about eating a banana, when all the label says is "Banana".

Because that is not happening, its another well played urban legend because it was suggested we try to take a gene from a cold water fish to help strawberries survive frost better. Not to mention allergen potential is strictly regulated and would not be allowed past FDA trials. Mind you this is a big focus by scientists in GM science, is to be very careful of genes that pose allorgen issues, right now everyone is hyper aware of this in the research side.

I think a lot of people are slightly uneducated on the matter and lump all the GMO products together. I currently limiting my intake of GMO's, until there is proper labeling and being to figure out what you are really getting in your food, a lot of times you don't even know that it is GMO food.

And that's fine, I have no fears of what is currently available, these crops have all been researched up and down for decades. The problem is people don't realize that on a molecular level these crops are often nearly identical IF NOT identical to their non GMO counterparts, so thats where I wonder why people worry about safety when the changes made are so minuscule that it goes beyond any logic that this would be enough to harm you in any way.

Another beef as mentioned above would be that Monsanto's have managed to put a patent on living things, which should not have ever been able to be done.

They are patenting things they have spent 100's of millions of dollars in research, these processes and new GMOs are actually combined and made in a lab, why should they not be patented?

And in real world practice, the biotech firms routinely offer their patents for free to help in situations like the golden rice project, projects in Africa, and things like the virus resistant Papaya in Hawaii which saved their Papaya industry because of a University that with help of biotech firms created this wonderful GMO Papaya.

Not saying there isn't a real discussion about how much can we actually patent, what should never be allowed, etc.. This is worth discussing, but again it gets lost in the anti GMO rhetoric. As usual the noise from them has some truth blended in with lots of bad science, dishonesty and fear mongering.

Also:

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Thor

Here's a good starting point on top 5 myths about GMO:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/201...d-seeds-busted



Also NOVA and Frontline on PBS did an excellent documentary called Harvest of Fear.

Its a must see!

Thanks for the video link, Thor, purveyor of highly interesting, free, documentary videos.

I watched this one at work today, and my first reaction in all of this is the emphatic confirmation of my long-standing irritation with activism:

GOD, DO I EVER HATE GREENPEACE

[Thor]

Oh yes, my loathing for Greenpeace goes a long ways back to when they sunk a Icelandic boat in harbor back in the 80s. They are so not interested in facts, just trying to appeal to emotion using scare tactics to get their way.

What was even worse was that earth liberation front idiot, listening to him talk made me want to punch his ugly teeth in

[Textcritic]

^
"I don't care if it's 50¢ or $500,000 it's still coercion to some degree that a corporation is funding a project for their own benefit... it's not the money, it's the morals involved."

— ELF idiot attempting to justify the bombing at UMinn, which accepted $2500 from Monsanto towards a $2.0 m budget for developing GMOs for developing countries in Africa.

But let's also not forget this guy:



"I was a little disappointed that we didn't get to talk to anyone in the executive suite [at Kelloggs Cereal Company], it would have been nice to be able to let them see what they've done to me, and what kind of a monster they've turned Tony into..."

[Thor]

The anger on the African lady's face when she was talking about those trying to tell Africans what they should do with their farming was quite something as well. It must be utterly infuriating to hear people telling struggling, poor, and starving Africans that they should not use GMO which would give them a way out of poverty and even allow them to send their children to school.

That to me was the most poignant moment in the documentary, and that Monsanto spend 100's of millions on her research knowing it would never make them a cent, but help those farmers earn a living which would eventually allow them to be customers of monstanto and others.. HOW EVIL!

[Thor]

Ooh nice a Calgarian blogger, she gets behind the curtain of the anti GMO movement, and of course calls out again Dr OZ the purveyor of nonsense.

http://doccamiryan.wordpress.com/201...i-gm-movement/

[IMG]UPDATE (October 17, 2012): Dr. Oz aired yet another episode warning of the dangers of GM foods on October 16, 2012. I am not a fan of Dr. Oz. And I haven’t been for years. The airing of this episode is not a random event. It comes on the heels of the Séralini study (more here), the publication of Séralini’s book, the release of Jeffrey Smith’s latest video (coincidentally, it is narrated by Lisa Oz) and the forthcoming food labeling referendum in California, Prop 37. Dr. Don Huber has been ‘on the road’, too, spinning his pathogenic tale in the EU. Dr. Oz Show: Ratings + Bias = YEP. “This episode of the Dr. Oz Show is brought to you by Séralini, Smith and the Say YES to Prop 37 initiative.” ORIGINAL POST December 10, 2010: Last year when the whole Triffid (flax) issue came to light, I did some research on Genetic ID, the lab/firm behind the discovery of Triffid in the EU food supply chain. The main question that I had was – what’s the incentive for this particular lab to sniff out a de-registered, never commercially produced transgenic flax cultivar? (when the potential for rents would be limited (one would think, anyway)) Earlier this year, I took the initiative to mine some publicly available information on the internet and uncovered some interesting linkages amongst Genetic ID, the Maharishi Institute, the Natural Law Party and other anti-GM/GE individuals, organizations and firms. See the network below. The connections illustrated within the network represent a variety of linkages from board positions, organizational memberships, funding connections, fiscal interests in firms/companies, attendance at common events or like-sponsorship activities. This data set, and the network, is – by no means – complete. But the graph certainly sheds an interesting light on the interconnectedness amongst actors in this anti-GM/GE context.[/IMG]

[Minnie]

This was just posted by an acquaintance -First GMO flu vaccine

[MaDMaN_26]

Well this was a really interesting thread to read.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Minnie

This was just posted by an acquaintance -First GMO flu vaccine

Nice! Oh wow will we ever have some heads exploding when the two universes of anti vax and anti GMO combine.

[Hanni]

Originally Posted by Minnie

This was just posted by an acquaintance -First GMO flu vaccine

Seems like a legitimate news outlet to me.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/about

The Global Research website was established on the 9th of September 2001, two days before the tragic events of September 11. Barely a few days later, Global Research had become a major news source on the New World Order and Washington’s “war on terrorism”.

Since 2004, Global Research has provided detailed analysis and coverage of US-NATO-Israel preparations to wage a pre-emptive nuclear attack on Iran.