Councillors green light public engagement on lowering city speed limits

[Engine09]

What a colossal waste of time and money.

[Fuzz]

Ya, I don't have any problem with the changes in my area, because it's old grid streets where you aren't hitting 50 anyway, so it really has no effect. I can't really get upset about that. but it does seem to be a giant waste of time and money, unless somone can show me roads where it actuality makes sense.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

There are people who like driving, and do it for fun and enjoyment.

People like riding horses and do it for fun and enjoyment and it used to be the primary way to get around the city.

Times change.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ya, I don't have any problem with the changes in my area, because it's old grid streets where you aren't hitting 50 anyway, so it really has no effect. I can't really get upset about that. but it does seem to be a giant waste of time and money, unless somone can show me roads where it actuality makes sense.

Exactly. The money spent on this could have been used toward improving pedestrian crossings and traffic markings where we will actually see improvement in safety.

It's also interesting to note that Elbow Drive was omitted from roadways included as part of the study. The one roadway where a review was warranted was omitted... largely because it would probably be identified as a roadway that should be 50, not 40.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by flamenspiel

yea, it’s not such a big deal. Next step collector roads down to 40.

30.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Torture

People know that this change only applies on residential roads and not collector roads...right?

Here's an exception, albeit it a small one. This road is one of 4 exits out of the community of Tuscany which to me is the definition of a collector road (City may not agree and I stand to be corrected). Ironically the road that feeds onto this one is a collector (painted line) so I assume it will stay at 50 while this one will change. It's a fairly short road so time wise not a huge deal.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.13870...7i13312!8i6656

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Here's an exception, albeit it a small one. This road is one of 4 exits out of the community of Tuscany which to me is the definition of a collector road (City may not agree and I stand to be corrected). Ironically the road that feeds onto this one is a collector (painted line) so I assume it will stay at 50 while this one will change. It's a fairly short road so time wise not a huge deal.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.13870...7i13312!8i6656

Maps are here: https://www.calgary.ca/transportatio...ed-limits.html

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Here's an exception, albeit it a small one. This road is one of 4 exits out of the community of Tuscany which to me is the definition of a collector road (City may not agree and I stand to be corrected). Ironically the road that feeds onto this one is a collector (painted line) so I assume it will stay at 50 while this one will change. It's a fairly short road so time wise not a huge deal.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.13870...7i13312!8i6656

Interestingly it looks like that road, Tusslewood Drive will remain 50 from 12 mile Coulee to Tuscany Springs Hill but they rest of that stretch will be 40 out to Tuscany Valley View. That is kind of strange.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Here's an exception, albeit it a small one. This road is one of 4 exits out of the community of Tuscany which to me is the definition of a collector road (City may not agree and I stand to be corrected). Ironically the road that feeds onto this one is a collector (painted line) so I assume it will stay at 50 while this one will change. It's a fairly short road so time wise not a huge deal.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.13870...7i13312!8i6656

Tusslewood appears to be flagged as a 50: https://www.calgary.ca/content/dam/w...map-ward-1.pdf

[JohnnyO]

Good lord what a waste of time and money. Ok Jim take the Calgary transit map and keep those roads the same, but change all the rest to 40. Here's $3mm for your time and signage changes.

Who the heck is going 50km/hr in all those cul de sacs and dead end residential roads, which is the bulk of what is changing. People will still speed on the collector roads.

As for Tuscany discussion why don't they make that Tusslewood entrance super annoying like the other access off 12 mile coulee and put a playground zone every 200ft?

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by JohnnyO

Good lord what a waste of time and money. Ok Jim take the Calgary transit map and keep those roads the same, but change all the rest to 40. Here's $3mm for your time and signage changes.

Who the heck is going 50km/hr in all those cul de sacs and dead end residential roads, which is the bulk of what is changing. People will still speed on the collector roads.

As for Tuscany discussion why don't they make that Tusslewood entrance super annoying like the other access off 12 mile coulee and put a playground zone every 200ft?

The motion also spoke to prioritizing traffic calming measures on collectors because with the width, speed limit alone would not be effective. The inner city has quite a few straight shot roads (including my own) where speeding is actually a problem, or even people abiding by the current speed limit it is not particularly safe. So, while yes, it often won't affect suburban crescents and cul de sacs, there will be impact in large swaths of the city. Making the default speed limit lower is the most cost effective way of affecting some improvement.

[Erick Estrada]

I walk my dog a lot and I've never really seen much in the way of excessive speeding on residential roads. Sure I see the odd jackass burn through but they are the exception. Almost all of my close calls as a pedestrian have happened at crosswalks as some drivers simply don't pay attention to them regardless of speed and there's another group that simply doesn't understand the concept of crosswalks. Just because I'm 1/3 into the crosswalk that doesn't mean that you can drive through right behind me to the point where I can feel the breeze of your car on my back. Also waving that you're sorry after blowing through the intersection I'm crossing isn't good enough because I know you have done this before and will do it again.

The problem for a long time is that cities and governments get fixated on speeding. It's been hammered in our collective skulls for decades. Speeding is bad. Speeding is bad. Speeding is bad. The reality is that a person that speeds yet is very attentive and knows the rules of the road will be far, far safer than the drivers that don't speed yet treat driving like a necessary evil to get from point A to point B rather than the biggest responsibility of their day. Then you have drivers that simply don't know the rules of the road like they are supposed to. The fact that a large portion of drivers still get confused at a 4 way stop signs is telling of how poor today's drivers are.

[Bunk]

^ I think the point is - people make errors for all sorts of reasons. Most people will abide by the posted limit - and when mistakes do happen, lower speed collisions will result in lower fatality or severity of injuries, or prevent some collisions from happening in the first place. The reports that went to Council presented a lot of sound evidence and reams of data that prove this to be true.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bunk

^ I think the point is - people make errors for all sorts of reasons. Most people will abide by the posted limit - and when mistakes do happen, lower speed collisions will result in lower fatality or severity of injuries, or prevent some collisions from happening in the first place. The reports that went to Council presented a lot of sound evidence and reams of data that prove this to be true.

Yeah but it's a lot of time and money to invest in reducing what's already a pretty small amount of these accidents happening on residential streets. Remember Calgary is a city of over 1.2 million people. They are claiming this change will result in 90 less collisions a year. That's a hell of a lot of money to invest to reduce collisions by 90 in a city of 1.2 million people.

The city said about 9,100 collisions happen each year on residential streets, and 500 of those result in severe injury or death. A lowered speed limit is expected to reduce collisions by 90 to 450 each year, the city said, and deaths by six to 29 each year.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...%20each%20year.

If this win makes Druh sleep better at night then whatever. She can have her small victories in her war against the automobile but the reality is that the city could probably use that money much more effectively.

[btimbit]

Phew, glad we solved that non-issue!

[Locke]

The best part is that people are going to be working from home for a good chunk of 2021, kids in school much less than normal so the 2021 statistics are going to be fantastic.....and its all going to be attributed to lowering the speed limits.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah but it's a lot of time and money to invest in reducing what's already a pretty small amount of these accidents happening on residential streets. Remember Calgary is a city of over 1.2 million people. They are claiming this change will result in 90 less collisions a year. That's a hell of a lot of money to invest to reduce collisions by 90 in a city of 1.2 million people.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...%20each%20year.

If this win makes Druh sleep better at night then whatever. She can have her small victories in her war against the automobile but the reality is that the city could probably use that money much more effectively.

Conversely, its (one time) cost is infinitesimal for a city with the budget size we have too. Both are relative. 90 collisions is not immaterial, especially to those 90 people annually and the trade-off for driver convenience is extremely small - these streets comprise a small percentage of the time of their commute. So, the tradeoff seems worth it, at least to me. It's also a part of a larger public safety approach to roads, it's not just do this one move (that's got all the attention), dust our hands together and move on - this is part of a suite of ongoing efforts to improve public safety on streets. It also makes the everyday experience, collision, close call, or not better too. It's not coincidence that people highly value living on streets with lower speed travelling vehicles. It's quite unpleasant to live on a fast moving street. Perhaps I'm selfish because I'll benefit directly, but I definitely see it improving my quality of life, and safety of my family.

[btimbit]

Maybe I'm just an a-hole, but if you move to a fast busy street, you don't get to complain about the street being fast and busy.

There's a reason I picked a cul-de-sac

[zamler]

Where can we see these reports?

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by zamler

Where can we see these reports?

A good place to start is the Sept 20 meeting on the Transportation and Transit Committee. Item 7.2. The report attachments are helpful, but the presentation in the video minutes from Administration including Q & A is also really good discussion and information.

https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings....nglish&Item=20

There's also a general page on the City website about the review - which attaches relevant background, reports and policy/strategies that surround the review
https://www.calgary.ca/transportatio...ed-limits.html