[Update: Approved] First Leg of the Green Line LRT

[powderjunkie]

https://www.jeffdavisonyyc.com/blog/...native-options

Councillors Davison, Demong, Gondek, Sutherland proposing the complete opposite of the common sense solution (IMO of course): full train to SE, BRT only to north.

[SebC]

Green Line south was prioritized as Stage 1 because the physical challenges of building to the southeast are less severe than the north, given no river to cross and easier land acquisition that is already complete.

Doesn't speak highly of these four councillors when they can't even get their basic facts straight.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

https://www.jeffdavisonyyc.com/blog/...native-options

Councillors Davison, Demong, Gondek, Sutherland proposing the complete opposite of the common sense solution (IMO of course): full train to SE, BRT only to north.

The surprising thing about this alternative proposal is that Gondek is in support of it, where the whole point of getting across the river and to 16th Ave is to make extensions to her ride easier and sooner. Chu in fact endorsed this rather than go against it which you would more so expect.

I feel that their proposal of building the SE fully, and then doing the North at a later time just makes it even more challenging for the north to get it's line that was needed yesterday. The current proposal for the SE is easy and relatively cheap to extend on. By getting to 16th ave, the hard part of the north line is done. The only obstacles at that point in going north is required land acquisitions and funding. If they hold off now, then they're going to have to add the heavy cost of crossing the river onto the obstacles list.

It's better to get the hard parts over and done with now. Therefore extensions are as painless as possible.

[GGG]

There getting closer,

Do the whole BRT including tunnels and bridges then add track and trains as you get funding. Get the right of way done first then upgrade to LRT.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

https://www.jeffdavisonyyc.com/blog/...native-options

Councillors Davison, Demong, Gondek, Sutherland proposing the complete opposite of the common sense solution (IMO of course): full train to SE, BRT only to north.

Yeah, as someone who lives close to an existing lrt station and will almost certainly never use either end of the Green Line, that's asinine. You want to cut half of it you should do BRT to the SE and go all the way up centre street with the tunnel. The redevelopment is better, existing transit is saturated, it just makes more sense.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by GGG

There getting closer,

Do the whole BRT including tunnels and bridges then add track and trains as you get funding. Get the right of way done first then upgrade to LRT.

....but they have funding right now....

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Joborule

It's better to get the hard parts over and done with now. Therefore extensions are as painless as possible.

In theory I agree with this; logically it makes sense. However the BIGGEST risk of the current proposal IMO is having the LRT go North only to 16th Ave and having no money left for the foreseeable future to extend it the rest of the way. You’ve basically clogged up Centre Street coming into DT, and are left with a very expensive north leg that only goes up 16 blocks. That doesn’t help anyone in the North.

From the link:

With limited dollars, the current plan to build two unfinished lines is built on hope, which is not a strategy for success. For this reason, we will be putting forward a plan to Council to build one line, and get it right.

In an ideal situation you build it and hope that more money materializes at a later date. Given our current situation, I’m not sure I’d be holding my breath for that to happen. It’s a risk mitigation decision.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Yeah, as someone who lives close to an existing lrt station and will almost certainly never use either end of the Green Line, that's asinine. You want to cut half of it you should do BRT to the SE and go all the way up centre street with the tunnel. The redevelopment is better, existing transit is saturated, it just makes more sense.

Of course it makes more sense to build the North leg first — the demand is already there. However, I think we’re well past that decision point now — politically I can’t see them changing course even though it was what they should have done originally...

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Torture

....but they have funding right now....

They need to lobby the feds to allow them to use the funding on a BRT rather than an LRT, get the province to buy in as well. Then build two complete BRTs with dedicated ROW and underpasses at critics intersections.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by GGG

They need to lobby the feds to allow them to use the funding on a BRT rather than an LRT, get the province to buy in as well. Then build two complete BRTs with dedicated ROW and underpasses at critics intersections.

If they have to go back to the feds and province, maybe it’s better to ask for the funding to do this right and not a hack job like is getting promoted now. Maybe these big infrastructure projects are in the cars now with gov trying to get people back to work.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by GGG

They need to lobby the feds to allow them to use the funding on a BRT rather than an LRT, get the province to buy in as well. Then build two complete BRTs with dedicated ROW and underpasses at critics intersections.

Just for clarification, we currently do have the BRTs going to the north and the south east. So these aren't anything new. The new alignment proposal administration put forth for the north is to just upgrade the corridor a bit to make the buses move faster, and have improved bus shelters.

What you're suggesting is moreso a transitway; as was originally intended before the feds came with a boatload of cash to build the whole thing initially.

Originally Posted by Wormius

If they have to go back to the feds and province, maybe it’s better to ask for the funding to do this right and not a hack job like is getting promoted now. Maybe these big infrastructure projects are in the cars now with gov trying to get people back to work.

Agreed. At this point commit with the money that is had right now to build what can be built, and lobby to get more funding to cover the extension for the whole line as planned initially. With how quickly the money came in without knowing the true costs of the project, it has caused a lot of the hurdles that the projects has dealt with the for the past several years. But it has given a more accurate projection of the true costs now.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Just for clarification, we currently do have the BRTs going to the north and the south east. So these aren't anything new. The new alignment proposal administration put forth for the north is to just upgrade the corridor a bit to make the buses move faster, and have improved bus shelters.

What you're suggesting is moreso a transitway; as was originally intended before the feds came with a boatload of cash to build the whole thing initially.

Yeah I would like to see a transit way like on 17th and then in future if demand and money is available build tracks.

[Fuzz]

The obvious solution, as it has been for ages, would be to build the north from 96th through downtown first, at least going to the new events centre, and built the south with bridges as a busway. This way, you provide the largest capacity to the busiest corridor. You also generate a lot more fares on the lowest cost/density mode of transport. Running half empty trains in the SE is not really financially smart. The distance is also shorter to the north, so you need fewer train cars to service it(at the same level of service).

The SE, with it's lack of density and large distances between population centres could be well served by buses originating at those denser locations and gathering to the busway. This gives the flexibility of using smaller or larger buses depending on need.

But since the north lacks a councilor willing to push for this, we get screwed.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Wormius

If they have to go back to the feds and province, maybe it’s better to ask for the funding to do this right and not a hack job like is getting promoted now. Maybe these big infrastructure projects are in the cars now with gov trying to get people back to work.

This would be my preference.

[troutman]

W. Brett D-Bag

https://twitter.com/user/status/1268233025898164224


https://pressprogress.ca/celebrity-m...calgary-mayor/

[Ozy_Flame]

He's getting slammed on social media for it too. Guy has turned into an angry right-wing loony on Twitter in the last couple of years. Even prominent Calgarians, like Andrew Phung, are choosing not to work with any organizations that work with him or take his money because of this. He's becoming an embarrassment to the city.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

He's getting slammed on social media for it too. Guy has turned into an angry right-wing loony on Twitter in the last couple of years. Even prominent Calgarians, like Andrew Phung, are choosing not to work with any organizations that work with him or take his money because of this. He's becoming an embarrassment to the city.

He may have problems with the Preds and NHL now too.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by troutman

W. Brett D-Bag

https://twitter.com/user/status/1268233025898164224


https://pressprogress.ca/celebrity-m...calgary-mayor/

Sounded like Danielle Smith trying to talk her way out of that a bit this morning , even though her whole show amplifies people like Wilson.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Torture

....but they have funding right now....

Build the full ROW (at least as much as possible with current land acquisition) including a tunnel from McHugh bluff to north side of 16th. Do the full cut and cover through downtown with all of the underground stations. Consider adding an extra portal at the furthest SW point (12th ave and 2 st) so it can potentially be used by other bus lines.

Better yet, take this opportunity to build the tunnel under 7 Ave, as has long been planned to separate red and blue lines. 7 Ave is already shared between 2 trains and numerous bus lines - no reason each level can't do the same thing (but with greater efficiency). Obviously this would be a substantial change with many implications...you could tie in the 6th St SE underpass after a quick double back from the event centre. There are just so many more effective ways to use this money - it simply requires a little negotiation with a federal government who is now twice removed from the one who made the commitment contingent on train tracks.

Immediate scope of new maintenance facility can be adjusted to be built in stages (or completely reconsidered back to Aurora location).

Build all of the possible 'hard parts' now (interchanges, tunnels) - then it will be far quicker and easier to lay track for the north section once necessary land is acquired. If you can actually fill articulated buses for the SE, then lay tracks there, too.

Several big benefits of BRT/transitway that are overlooked - each section can be operationalized very quickly and make a significant difference, and they can be used by multiple routes.

[woob]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

He's getting slammed on social media for it too. Guy has turned into an angry right-wing loony on Twitter in the last couple of years. Even prominent Calgarians, like Andrew Phung, are choosing not to work with any organizations that work with him or take his money because of this. He's becoming an embarrassment to the city.

Nothing would make me happier to see this result in never having to listen to that clown on any TV/radio show ever again. What am embarrassment to Calgary. Nenshi's sister posted an amazing thread of tweets on this matter in response to Wilson's "apology".

https://twitter.com/ShaheenYYC/statu...38058129563649