Real estate in Calgary - another bubble?

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Being able to work remotely, and it likely being more acceptable in the future, probably has changed things for a lot of people

Yep, those are considerations as well. I have a few friends who are suddenly all excited to consider buying an acreage.

I was also chatting with a guy (pre covid) who owns an acreage and he was talking about how he really loves and enjoys the nature and regularly going on walks on his property buck naked without any worries anyone will see him because the nearest neighbor is a few KM away.

At first I thought he said he basically could wander his property in his birthday suit, but apparently he wasn't joking about going on strolls nude.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

^^Yikes on the nude strolls, but I do think the idea of an acreage now is a pretty seductive idea. Less concern of commutes, less neighbours, fresh air, etc. However, working at the office is coming back. Maybe not every day (although even that I am slightly dubious), but trips downtown, to the grocery store, to the kids school and after school stuff will get old, fast for many. I wouldn’t call it a bubble, but I would not be surprised that many will regret that decision.

[Slava]

I’m not so sure that the WFH is here to stay. I think it might extend to a day or two per week, or “hoteling” types of scenarios, but some larger companies in the US are looking anxious to get people back in the office. Personally, I think the office is still valuable as people get certain cues and there’s a social pressure to work while you’re there, which doesn’t happen at home.

[Lubicon]

I’m not sold on how long WFH is going to last either. Maybe a day per week like Slava mentions. The other thing people may not have thought through is high speed internet access in rural areas. It’s not everywhere and it’s not cheap.

[Sylvanfan]

Work from home will stick to a certain extent. Right about now office space is as valuable as swamp land in Florida. Last month was the first time I had been to our office in 6 months and every building has a sign with office space for lease.

I live in a neighborhood with a lot of new builds happening. All the show home reps say they have sold more in 2021 than they did in 2020 spec houses with short possession times go quick. All these new builds I have walked thru in the evening look to have some sort of office or den.

I even saw a purple bricks listed place sell....two years ago those signs would stay up for 6 months and come down.

Likely some sort of over reaction to the current frenzy. But 4 years ago when we started planning our new house we wanted to add a den so I could work from home and an inlaw suite so my Mom who's in her 70's would not be living completely alone. Those two things have been really valuable the last 13 months.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

I’m not sold on how long WFH is going to last either. Maybe a day per week like Slava mentions. The other thing people may not have thought through is high speed internet access in rural areas. It’s not everywhere and it’s not cheap.

I thought Elon Musks starlink was going to fix that.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Slava

I’m not so sure that the WFH is here to stay. I think it might extend to a day or two per week, or “hoteling” types of scenarios, but some larger companies in the US are looking anxious to get people back in the office. Personally, I think the office is still valuable as people get certain cues and there’s a social pressure to work while you’re there, which doesn’t happen at home.

Agreed. The other issue i think is people will start to get very tired of WFH. We are all currently grating over being cooped up in our homes for long periods of time, WFH doesn't necessarily change this.

There could be some current acreage/suburban homebuyers who get some real buyers remorse once they miss the social aspects of working in an office.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Agreed. The other issue i think is people will start to get very tired of WFH. We are all currently grating over being cooped up in our homes for long periods of time, WFH doesn't necessarily change this.

There could be some current acreage/suburban homebuyers who get some real buyers remorse once they miss the social aspects of working in an office.

I think WFH wouldn’t be so bad, if it were more flexible in terms of where home is. I’d be loving if it meant in the summer, picking up and going somewhere with the family for a month or two. Right now though, I agree that it is grating on nerves. My office is virtually empty and so I have been able to go in and work. One reason is though I have seen an encroachment both from an employee/employer level on outside hours. If I put my time in at the office and leave my computer there, I feel no guilt ignoring work emails or requests until the next day.

[stampsx2]

WFH will stay simply for the fact that companies save a lot of money on leasing space. I think companies will reduce the sizes of their offices from say three floors to one and only have staff there that needs to be there.

[CliffFletcher]

Very, very few companies are going to transition to 100 per cent work from home model. Business leaders and analysts say working from home has caused serious problems, and most employees say they want to go back to working in the office.

So what we’ll be looking at going forward is flexible option to work from home one or two days a week. Which is why I don’t understand people moving to rural communities. If you’re still going into the office three days a week, how practical is it to live 70 km outside the city?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Very, very few companies are going to transition to 100 per cent work from home model. Business leaders and analysts say working from home has caused serious problems, and most employees say they want to go back to working in the office.

So what we’ll be looking at going forward is flexible option to work from home one or two days a week. Which is why don’t I understand people moving to rural communities. If you’re still going into the office three days a week, how practical is it to live 70 km outside the city?

This is what starting to be seen from some of the companies that one might expect to be leading this WFH charge as well. Companies such as Google and Facebook are itching to get their employees back to the office, and purely because it's tech you would think that they would have other solutions to let people stay home.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Very, very few companies are going to transition to 100 per cent work from home model. Business leaders and analysts say working from home has caused serious problems, and most employees say they want to go back to working in the office.

So what we’ll be looking at going forward is flexible option to work from home one or two days a week. Which is why don’t I understand people moving to rural communities. If you’re still going into the office three days a week, how practical is it to live 70 km outside the city?

It does depend a lot on what industry you work for. For example, my brother is a programmer. He was already working remotely, and this was the nail in the coffin for the rest of his office. He has a production based job where productivity is easily measured based on what you actually produce. The customer interaction part of the business was not handled by programmers.

I know from talking to lots of other people that WFH has been an absolute disaster for many admin based jobs. Where someone's whole job is to send out an email or prepare a document in X amount of time, it becomes impossible to ensure that person is working when they can't be physically communicated with and monitored. Most law office, for example, remained open during the pandemic. There were periods where the staff was in 2-3 days/week, but any extended period of having people entirely WFH saw a total collapse in productivity.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Slava

This is what starting to be seen from some of the companies that one might expect to be leading this WFH charge as well. Companies such as Google and Facebook are itching to get their employees back to the office, and purely because it's tech you would think that they would have other solutions to let people stay home.

Those companies also tend to rely on concepts like "open work spaces" (aka cubicles without walls where you can be monitored at all times) and "team building events" (aka using peer pressure to force employees into the office more). These companies very much rely on peer pressure and monitoring their employees at all times.

[J pold]

Being a real estate broker we are right in the middle of a lot of the WHF vs. traditional office model discussions.

None of our clients have said they would 100% WFH but nearly all want to embrace a flexible working model. Some are more flexible than others but it's pretty clear that they are going to let employees WFH 1 to 3 days a week in most cases.

[Vinny01]

This real estate boom appears to be a global phenomenon. I think a lot of it has to do with people being stuck in their homes for over a year and wanting more space or a change of scenery.

I do wonder if some of the people fleeing to the burbs for more space will head back downtown once normal life resumes and bars and restaurants are packed and people head back to the office?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Slava

I’m not so sure that the WFH is here to stay. I think it might extend to a day or two per week, or “hoteling” types of scenarios, but some larger companies in the US are looking anxious to get people back in the office. Personally, I think the office is still valuable as people get certain cues and there’s a social pressure to work while you’re there, which doesn’t happen at home.

Depending on the work you do, having in-person interactions with your team is far more productive than remote.

Coming from an office that already had a generous WFH policy, I can’t wait to get back into it.

[stampsx2]

I doubt employees will be WFH 100% of the time. For most companies, most employees would probably agree they want to be part office, part home employees. Companies will probably agree because the savings in office space and money are huge not just for the employer but for the employee as well. Employers might end up offering work flexibility as a way to hire good employees.

I highly doubt we’ll see a complete shift back to the way things were pre covid.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by peter12

Depending on the work you do, having in-person interactions with your team is far more productive than remote.

Coming from an office that already had a generous WFH policy, I can’t wait to get back into it.

Things that are usually just quick conversations are now actual set appointments or meetings. It's not productive in that sense.

[Flamenspiel]

I think a move to suburbs is fine, but too rural or too remote is risky. If you lose that job good luck finding a new one.

I have a WFH US colleague who moved from Detroit to an exotic island. it worked out fine until she lost the job. Ended up having to get a much lower unattractive local position and never got back into her profession, basically ended her career.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by blankall

Those companies also tend to rely on concepts like "open work spaces" (aka cubicles without walls where you can be monitored at all times) and "team building events" (aka using peer pressure to force employees into the office more). These companies very much rely on peer pressure and monitoring their employees at all times.

It’s not so much about peer pressure and monitoring as collaboration. I work in tech and everything I do requires collaboration with 2-6 other people. Multiple times a day, every day. Email and zoom meetings are fine most of the time. But there are often problems that would be more easily addressed by two or three people hashing out a solution around a desk or in a hallway.

And we communicate easier with people who we’re familiar with in person. We’re less likely to misconstrue someone’s tone or meaning if we know them personally. Anyone hired in the last year in an office job has likely never even met their co-workers. This has impacted how they work and learn.