Electric vehicle war, is gas soon to be toast?

[Harju]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I would even say $30k pricetag, 500 km range, and 300 km between chargers. Right now I still cannot drive to Winnipeg, as there is 475 km between chargers in Regina and MacGregor, MB.

There is Petro-Canada charging station in Brandon which is a little closer. PC has both CCS and CHAdeMO plug-ins.

[bossy22]

There are 6 public charging stations in Brandon. Petro Can, Shell, shoppers mall, ford, GM, the comfort inn, which are all free, and 2 chargers at campgrounds which are pay chargers.

There aren't just Tesla superchargers. There are a lot of charging stations around. Malls, car dealerships, and hotels can have chargers. Not as quick as a supercharger, but you should never get stuck without being able to charge up a bit.

If you have an EV, get the plugshare app. It will show you all the charging stations around you. I'm at home right now. If I look close to me, I can see the Elbow Springs golf club, Winsport, 4 points sheraton, arrive@bowness, and market mall. I see Arrive@bowness is being used right now and they also charge $2/hr.

I also see 3 private home chargers nearby. These are people that will let you charge at their home. We are also on the app. So if you are my neighbourhood and need a boost, you contact me through the app and if it works out, you can use my 50amp charger. I will even make you coffee.

[ken0042]

Thanks guys- I was just going by the Tesla charging map. I didn't know any of the Petro Canada ones were live yet.

Now to work on getting that price tag down. Once somebody sorts that out- Bossy; what kind of coffee do you serve?

[dino7c]

What if you need to tow a trailer or boat?

[opendoor]

There are also different types of public chargers. Level 3 chargers can fully charge a vehicle in about 30 minutes, and I believe from the west coast to Regina on Hwy 1 there isn't a gap of more than about 300 km without a Level 3 charger. In fact, outside of Manitoba and western Ontario, I think you could get across Canada on Hwy 1 using only the 30 min Level 3 chargers assuming a 300 km range on your car.

[lazypucker]

I was in the process of buying a new vehicle a few months ago, and had considered a Tesla. But ultimately I didn't go for it.

I think the price point of EVs are acceptable these days. It's not like the entrance fee for an EV is $200K or something. $50K-ish I think isn't a huge deterrent for people.

I read up about how great Tesla's and other EVs are, but currently the battery technology and accessibility of charging stations are still the biggest factor that EVs aren't more popular these days.

Until the day where you can charge your batteries from 0% to close to 100% in 5 minutes (just like gassing up your car), and when almost all of the current gas stations start installing chargers, there is still a long way for EVs to displace combustible engines. The accessibility and availability to refuel your EV is just not there yet.

[DoubleF]

Give me an AWD EV minivan for the city and I'd be all over it. The vehicle would be fully charged at home all the time so 300 KM is enough even for something like a day at Banff and back. 400-500+ is obviously more comfortable though and with a vehicle that size, I assume adding an extra battery to increase the range shouldn't be a major issue?

Sort out the minivan road trip issue later.

Originally Posted by lazypucker

Until the day where you can charge your batteries from 0% to close to 100% in 5 minutes (just like gassing up your car), and when almost all of the current gas stations start installing chargers, there is still a long way for EVs to displace combustible engines. The accessibility and availability to refuel your EV is just not there yet.

What if you just built wireless charging into stretches of road and force people to pay a toll to drive on them? Kinda like a gas station/HOV situation all in one go? You could even combine it with other things that keep people hanging out like a drive through etc.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Give me an AWD EV minivan for the city and I'd be all over it. The vehicle would be fully charged at home all the time so 300 KM is enough even for something like a day at Banff and back. 400-500+ is obviously more comfortable though and with a vehicle that size, I assume adding an extra battery to increase the range shouldn't be a major issue?

Sort out the minivan road trip issue later.

What if you just built wireless charging into stretches of road and force people to pay a toll to drive on them? Kinda like a gas station/HOV situation all in one go? You could even combine it with other things that keep people hanging out like a drive through etc.

While this is technically possible, it's also not very efficient. And if you imaginal you need 30 minutes to fully charge(at a much more efficient supercharger), that's about half the distance from Calgary to Canmore. That's a huge amount of roadway to wire up. How long of a road segment would you need to make it practical and useful, and be affordable to do? The math doesn't really work.

[You Need a Thneed]

EVs are at a place where they would work for a high majority of people for 95% of the trips they do. And they are advancing quickly. Right now the biggest factor is the startup cost. If the startup cost comes down to a similar level as a gas vehicle - gas vehicles are essentially done for - there’s simply too many advantages to EVs.

The charging networks are growing rapidly too, and I suspect that within 5 years, it will never be an issue to find a charging station, unless you are somewhere really remote. For what most people do, having a home based charger is all they would need 99% of the time. Of course, there are many who don’t have an option to have a home based charger, and that must be addressed.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if, in 10-20 years, Gas powered vehicles are a niche market amongst new vehicles sales.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

While this is technically possible, it's also not very efficient. And if you imaginal you need 30 minutes to fully charge(at a much more efficient supercharger), that's about half the distance from Calgary to Canmore. That's a huge amount of roadway to wire up. How long of a road segment would you need to make it practical and useful, and be affordable to do? The math doesn't really work.

I was thinking more putting them on main roads in the city like a Trans Canada/ 16 Avenue and the surrounding areas. A combination of slower speeds and leaving your car to grab drive thru or sitting at a restaurant to grab food is enough time to give it a "10-15% top up while passing through" in lieu of having to stop at a super charger. I wasn't imagining putting it on highways and I wasn't imagining completely replacing super chargers.

So for instance, let's say your vehicle has a 400KM range. All of the Trans Canada Strip within Medicine Hat is wired to be wireless charging which also benefits the locals. If you can get around 10-15% while searching for a supercharger, then when you find one, you can theoretically top up in less time than 30 minutes, no? Plus, if the locals are just doing short trips in general, they won't generally need to clog up the super chargers either, which leaves them vacant for those that require longer trips or have higher energy usages for their vehicles (ie: Towing/delivery/distance/ride share etc.).

I was imagining the intention for wiring up the wireless charging is a bit more big picture than just being able to blast from Calgary to Regina or Calgary to Kelowna without ever stopping.

[underGRADFlame]

So in February I made the decision to sell my F150 for a few factors, and did a lot of research into PHEV's. I thought it made the most sense for me being my commuting distance and the fact that I wanted the ability to drive distances if needed.

I ended up buying a '18 Ford Fusion Energi (price/availability being the biggest factors, but styling was up there too) and I couldn't be happier with it. Since February I have put on around 12000km's and have filled up 4 times (41L tank). My power has gone up about $17/month over last year. My biggest gripe about the car is the lack of truck space due to the battery but as we do have a family SUV as well its not a big issue. The Energi is definitely not the best at any one thing when it comes to PHEV's, its EV range isn't spectacular but it works great for me and has me really excited about what will be happening soon with EV's and PHEV's.

I'm planning on taking a hard look at the electric F150 when it comes out and after seeing what Ford has done with the Mach E I'm really excited!

[DoubleF]

I feel like the first step is to really push more powerful hybrids than pure EVs. Something like an 80/20 EV/Gasoline situation where you get the power of the pure performance EV like a Tesla, but then a 1.5 ish litre engine that kinda helps to propel the vehicle, but in general is much more used as a gas generator to power/recharge the EV? I mean, the tanks obviously don't have to be as large if it's just a basic gas generator, right? And then the power generated would be what is necessary for extending the basic 300km distance, right?

[Fuzz]

Ya,that's called a "range extender", I think BMW had a good one.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

EVs are at a place where they would work for a high majority of people for 95% of the trips they do. And they are advancing quickly. Right now the biggest factor is the startup cost. If the startup cost comes down to a similar level as a gas vehicle - gas vehicles are essentially done for - there’s simply too many advantages to EVs.

The charging networks are growing rapidly too, and I suspect that within 5 years, it will never be an issue to find a charging station, unless you are somewhere really remote. For what most people do, having a home based charger is all they would need 99% of the time. Of course, there are many who don’t have an option to have a home based charger, and that must be addressed.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if, in 10-20 years, Gas powered vehicles are a niche market amongst new vehicles sales.

I still struggle to see how manufacturers will get the costs of battery production down. With the assumption that lithium will still be needed and demand for the resource increased, I think gas vehicles will continue to be cheaper during that time frame. I see it as more of a 50/50 split amongst the SUV/Sedan crowd.

I'm also a little biased/selfish as the adoption of EV's will likely make electricity costs higher.

[Fuzz]

I also wonder if it is such a good idea for every tom, dick and harry to have a 0-60 sub 3 second capable accelerating vehicle. Seems it could lead to getting cut off all over the place if you try to leave safe following distance. Everyone will be zipping around to get in there.

[Weitz]

What do you pay at the various chargers that are around these days to charge your car?

[Buzzard]

So worst case scenario obviously, but what exactly happens if you're at the last few feet of your battery power?

Does it just die, you coast to a stop and there you are? Then what? Have it towed to nearest charger, or are there mobile charging services yet? Does running it dead do damage?

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

So worst case scenario obviously, but what exactly happens if you're at the last few feet of your battery power?

One owner's experience:


https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...-sight.171140/

[Fuzz]

When the 12 Volt battery dies opening or closing the door can break the windows.

That's some, uh, special engineering.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's some, uh, special engineering.

That's the case with a lot of vehicles without full-frame doors that don't just use inward pressure against a door seal to keep water out of the cabin. The vehicle's windows roll-down about a quarter-inch when you pull on the door handle, and roll back up and tuck into the weather-stripping when you close them.

It isn't usually the case that the window breaks, but the risk is increased when the window isn't able to roll down that tiny bit.