Climate change and human responsibility

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I'm still waiting for anyone to attack the IPCC Reports she defers to, the report she brought up when in front of the U.S. Congress, and continues to bring up . Everyone is focused on a meddling 16-year old teenager and throwing every insult in the book at her. It really is a case of attacking the messenger and a complete misunderstanding of why she is a galvanizing force.

Well there is the problem. It's easy to attack a 16 year old kid with Asperger's Syndrome, but its a completely different thing to attack the work of subject matter experts from around the globe on a report that is considered a consensus decision. This is why the tactic is to argue over language and obfuscate than it is to take on the research itself. It is easier to sow the seeds of disbelief when you attack the messenger instead of the facts.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

What we need to do is buy a social licence.

One of the issues is there are too many Engineers and Technical people in Alberta. For a long time there has been a belief that if you can make a logical argument or business case it should be agreed on because it makes sense. In many parts of the oil industry this is the case.

It completely ignores the way people make decisions and form opinions. It doesn’t matter that shutting down a pipeline doesn’t change anything in terms of oil consumed. It’s a symbol. It doesn’t matter that the environmental record of the oilsands is the best in the world as it still looks like Mordor. The oil industry failed to anticipate logic failing so the concept of convincing people through emotion is important. Social License missed the mark because again it was a logical argument instead of an emotional one.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't disagree.

But I don't see a point in having leaders meeting with her, she's there to lecture and get video clips. So that makes no sense. Its not like she's going to say, thanks for doing this. Any footage of a tour for example that shows positive strides environmentally will probably never be published. They're here to look for and promote the worst, they're not here for fair and balanced.

What are you basing this on exactly?

third its a sign of a functioning democracy and a right to free speech that we have two groups here. As long as neither side acts like idiots then I'm cool with it.

Right, but one side is clearly acting like a bunch of lunatics and it's not Greta's team. It's the one that thinks accosting a 16 year-old with a disability and doxxing her is acceptable behaviour. You can say her age isn't relevant when discussing her positions. It's absolutely relevant in the way people act towards her.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I'm still waiting for anyone to attack the IPCC Reports she defers to, the report she brought up when in front of the U.S. Congress, and continues to bring up . Everyone is focused on a meddling 16-year old teenager and throwing every insult in the book at her. It really is a case of attacking the messenger and a complete misunderstanding of why she is a galvanizing force.

Have you read the report? Maybe it is my inexperience reading scientific journals etc, but the conclusions seem very vague to me, at least as far as mitigation is concerned. (I focused my reading on mitigation because I don't need to be convinced that climate change occurs).

It seems like the conclusion, albeit loaded up with buzzwords, is that we need to change our way of governance, revamp our financial system, change what we eat and load up on a ton of technology that doesn't exist yet. I mean, sure all those things would reduce emissions, but nothing is quantified and there is no mention of whether it is even enough to offset the increased energy/emissions of lifting another few billion people out of poverty.

Maybe it is the purpose of the report to be very high level, but what do I get from that in terms of tangible solutions?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Sure but protest or no protest, this was going to be angled by Greta and her team to make Alberta look bad.

She's not here for discussion or to get educated on what Alberta is doing environmentally.

Well, the counter protest is not doing anybody any favours, regardless of what she has to say. It's just a stupid, pointless gesture by UWR. The best outcome is they don't do something that gets us on national or international news.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

Maybe it is the purpose of the report to be very high level, but what do I get from that in terms of tangible solutions?

Maybe you should read Chapter 4.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Well, the counter protest is not doing anybody any favours, regardless of what she has to say. It's just a stupid, pointless gesture by UWR. The best outcome is they don't do something that gets us on national or international news.

Its going to be on the news nationally and internationally no matter what. She's the flavor of the year.


Its a great news story because it involves a kid basically.



And like I said, I have no trouble with a counter protest as long as its not violent on either side.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You guys want to cut off your noses to spite your face, be my guest.

Said as were being stabbed repeatedly in the fade, heart, back.
I think we as Albertans have tried to be nice, we sat back and quietly said and did nothing as outside forces rallied against our province, our industry and our rights. #### it, it’s time we stood up and started fighting the way the other side has for decades.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

What are you basing this on exactly?

Please show me where she hasn't. Did you see her interactions with Justin?








[/quote]Right, but one side is clearly acting like a bunch of lunatics and it's not Greta's team. It's the one that thinks accosting a 16 year-old with a disability and doxxing her is acceptable behaviour. You can say her age isn't relevant when discussing her positions. It's absolutely relevant in the way people act towards her.[/QUOTE]


Where is this protest accosting her or acting like lunatics, I don't even know if it starts yet. I like you Rube, but you seem to want to very quickly apply labels, don't worry, I do it too.


And her age is absolutely relevant, mainly because its a powerful selling point for the Climate Strike movement.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Said as were being stabbed repeatedly in the fade, heart, back.
I think we as Albertans have tried to be nice, we sat back and quietly said and did nothing as outside forces rallied against our province, our industry and our rights. #### it, it’s time we stood up and started fighting the way the other side has for decades.

Do you mean like creating science and spreading propaganda that the globe is warming and if it is it certainly isnt CO2, and if it is CO2 it certainly isn’t manmade emissions.?

We could do things like that.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Its going to be on the news nationally and internationally no matter what. She's the flavor of the year.


Its a great news story because it involves a kid basically.



And like I said, I have no trouble with a counter protest as long as its not violent on either side.

I used to work in a somewhat for a company that was somewhat covered by the media.

You'd get bad articles from time to time. Assuming its a not a critical blow that is going to impact your business - you have two options - a) take the shots for one day and then everyone forgets or b) react emotionally and fight back and drag the story out for days and hope you can win a PR battle.

There is a 0% chance that the Rebel or Oil companies are going to win a PR battle with her. So let her do her thing, the sun will rise tomorrow and go back about your business.

[CaptainCrunch]

In terms of the whole social license thing. Remember when Notley came on board, and Quebec and the Federal Government all said, back us on the environmental plan impose the carbon tax and you'll get social license and acceptance of the pipeline. And she did that and got nothing. The concept of social license is a failure when your the only one delivering it. It was one of Notley's big failings, she had faith that the other side would deliver.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I used to work in a somewhat for a company that was somewhat covered by the media.

You'd get bad articles from time to time. Assuming its a not a critical blow that is going to impact your business - you have two options - a) take the shots for one day and then everyone forgets or b) react emotionally and fight back and drag the story out for days and hope you can win a PR battle.

There is a 0% chance that the Rebel or Oil companies are going to win a PR battle with her. So let her do her thing, the sun will rise tomorrow and go back about your business.

Frankly I said that about any type of official interaction with her, don't engage, don't meet with her, if she wants to take the tour, great set up the tour.



Protesting is a right no matter what, if both sides want to protest, good for them, go for it as long as its not violent or idiotic.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Its going to be on the news nationally and internationally no matter what. She's the flavor of the year.


Its a great news story because it involves a kid basically.



And like I said, I have no trouble with a counter protest as long as its not violent on either side.

Yeah, it would be beneficial if it was just her on the news, and not the local redneck, anti-science guys in their trucks making Alberta look like some backwoods place. We don't need that extra advertising.

[Wormius]

The best thing would be to come out with a message that is agreeable, like "yes, we agree fossil fuels and its production aren't great for the environment, but we need it for a lot of industries, and having it supplied by us in an ethical manner is a lot better than getting it from some OPEC nation".

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Yeah, it would be beneficial if it was just her on the news, and not the local redneck, anti-science guys in their trucks making Alberta look like some backwoods place. We don't need that extra advertising.

It doesn't make the slightest difference, anything short of zero oil production will not appease these climate zealots. In fact I don't think anything will they are hell bent on doom and gloom no matter what.

I bet you could tell them about some of the latest technologies that promise clean energy and they wouldn't care at all, it's all about the hysteria. Don't believe me? See the idiots and climbed on the train in protest, even though the train runs on electricity and replaces thousands of petrol burning cars for transport. That's the mentality we're dealing with.

[stampsx2]

Extinction rebellion planning to block Vancouver rush hour traffic. I’m really excited about this:

Rush hour traffic expected to be blocked by Vancouver protest

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.ctv...1_4644448.html

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by zamler

It doesn't make the slightest difference, anything short of zero oil production will not appease these climate zealots. In fact I don't think anything will they are hell bent on doom and gloom no matter what.

I bet you could tell them about some of the latest technologies that promise clean energy and they wouldn't care at all, it's all about the hysteria. Don't believe me? See the idiots and climbed on the train in protest, even though the train runs on electricity and replaces thousands of petrol burning cars for transport. That's the mentality we're dealing with.

You dropped this:



Lots of climate activists will listen to reason, most likely even Greta. Unfortunately they don’t hear much. It’s mostly baseless attacks on their motives and character and almost no refutation of their message.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Please show me where she hasn't. Did you see her interactions with Justin?

Where is this protest accosting her or acting like lunatics, I don't even know if it starts yet. I like you Rube, but you seem to want to very quickly apply labels, don't worry, I do it too.

Have you not seen the stunts that the idiots at The Rebel have been pulling so far? Absolutely despicable.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Imagine how far right you'd have to be to believe this is a true statement.

Take a quick look at who thanks your posts. It’s the same group over and over and over. Not just in this thread but in just about all of them. Liberals always pat eachother on the back.