Climate change and human responsibility

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I’d wager it’s more than a few hours per year. Don’t they practice?

I have kids and use my SUV to shuttle them around.

They aren’t using these super cars for errands. These guys are emitting carbon just going round and round a track and I doubt they are getting the 10-11 l/100km mileage I am.

If we’re gonna be serious about the discussion, how can we tell people like me that what I do is bad, but what Max or Lewis are doing is “negligible”.

Firstly, this isn't about ethics, it's about emissions. You aren't "bad" for driving an SUV.


Second, it's simple math. Transportation is about 14% of world emissions. There's about 1.5 billion light duty vehicles accounting for accounting for a little less than half of that, so let's say about 6% of total greenhouse gas emissions or 3.2 billion metric tons of CO2. On average in North America, a passenger car emits about 2.4 metric tons per vehicle. The entire F1 claims it produces 276,000 metric tons, and about three quarters is the set up and logistics.

Lastly, F1 is an entertainment product that produces 0.00007% of the world's CO2 emissions. Your SUV is about 1/100000th of that. At the end of the day, no one needs to feel guilty because that's how the system is set up and guilt is not a good force for change anyways. Regardless, we need to decrease emissions from a policy level because asking individuals to change their habits is a surefire way to not change anything. Why do you think the BP used a marketing firm in the earl 2000's to invent individual "carbon footprints", or beverage container manufacturer's funded reduce, reuse, recycle ads when government was looking at bottle deposits? If the problem is that of individuals, then we don't pass policy that puts ownership of change on the markets that need to change. It's the very same reason that shutting down Oilsands production isn't going to curb demand, only make it more expensive. At the end of the day these are systemic issues needing systemic change (meaning policy shifts) and not just guilt people into changing. Why should you sell your gas vehicle and buy and electric one just to be a better person? That's stupid

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

There are a few dozen F1 cars that run for a few hours every year. It's not going to be significant compared to 1 billion cars on the road that run a few hundred hours every year

I suspect by far the biggest source of emissions from F1 is moving all of the cars, equipment and people all over the globe throughout the season.

[FlamesAddiction]

Meteorologists being threatened and harassed by conspiracy theorists.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/27/world...ntl/index.html

In April, meteorologist Isabel Moreno wrote a tweet saying “rain skips Spain,” with an image of a band of rain stretching across Europe but missing Spain almost entirely. She was completely unprepared for the response.

“It was one of the hardest experiences in social media in my life,” said Moreno, who appears on the Spanish TV channel RTVE. “I received HUNDREDS of responses to an (apparently) inoffensive tweet,” she told CNN in an email.

Many accused her of covering up weather manipulation.

“Do not take us for idiots,” said one. “They dry us up, and you are the spokesperson for those who do it,” said another. And on, and on.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I suspect by far the biggest source of emissions from F1 is moving all of the cars, equipment and people all over the globe throughout the season.

Of their entire Scope 1, 2, 3 emissions, only 0.7% are from burning fuel in the cars themselves. According to F1's net zero plan, their current emissions are:
-45% logistics
-27% business travel
-19.3% facilities and factories
-7.3% Event operations
-0.7% Power unit emissions

https://corp.formula1.com/wp-content...ite-vFINAL.pdf

[Fuzz]

F1 power units are the most efficient ICE hybrid that exists, by a long shot. They go through 100l per race, plus quality and practice, so 300l max x 20 cars x 23 races. That's 138 000 litres, plus pre season testing, so round it up to 200k. Pretty small potatoes. All the logistics are the worst part, but they are working towards net zero.


No idea on Nascar, probably way worse and should be cancelled and exploded.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Firstly, this isn't about ethics, it's about emissions. You aren't "bad" for driving an SUV.


Second, it's simple math. Transportation is about 14% of world emissions. There's about 1.5 billion light duty vehicles accounting for accounting for a little less than half of that, so let's say about 6% of total greenhouse gas emissions or 3.2 billion metric tons of CO2. On average in North America, a passenger car emits about 2.4 million metric tons per vehicle. The entire F1 claims it produces 276,000 metric tons, and about three quarters is the set up and logistics.

Lastly, F1 is an entertainment product that produces 0.00007% of the world's CO2 emissions. Your SUV is about 1/100000th of that. At the end of the day, no one needs to feel guilty because that's how the system is set up and guilt is not a good force for change anyways. Regardless, we need to decrease emissions from a policy level because asking individuals to change their habits is a surefire way to not change anything. Why do you think the BP used a marketing firm in the earl 2000's to invent individual "carbon footprints", or beverage container manufacturer's funded reduce, reuse, recycle ads when government was looking at bottle deposits? If the problem is that of individuals, then we don't pass policy that puts ownership of change on the markets that need to change. It's the very same reason that shutting down Oilsands production isn't going to curb demand, only make it more expensive. At the end of the day these are systemic issues needing systemic change (meaning policy shifts) and not just guilt people into changing. Why should you sell your gas vehicle and buy and electric one just to be a better person? That's stupid

This is a very good post so I'm quoting it

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

No idea on Nascar, probably way worse and should be cancelled and exploded.

NASCAR will be net zero by 2035.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

NASCAR will be net zero by 2035.

Bull.

I'd love to see how they spin that.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Locke

Bull.



I'd love to see how they spin that.

They'll be giving net zero F&+#'s

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Firstly, this isn't about ethics, it's about emissions. You aren't "bad" for driving an SUV.


Second, it's simple math. Transportation is about 14% of world emissions. There's about 1.5 billion light duty vehicles accounting for accounting for a little less than half of that, so let's say about 6% of total greenhouse gas emissions or 3.2 billion metric tons of CO2. On average in North America, a passenger car emits about 2.4 million metric tons per vehicle. The entire F1 claims it produces 276,000 metric tons, and about three quarters is the set up and logistics.

Lastly, F1 is an entertainment product that produces 0.00007% of the world's CO2 emissions. Your SUV is about 1/100000th of that. At the end of the day, no one needs to feel guilty because that's how the system is set up and guilt is not a good force for change anyways. Regardless, we need to decrease emissions from a policy level because asking individuals to change their habits is a surefire way to not change anything. Why do you think the BP used a marketing firm in the earl 2000's to invent individual "carbon footprints", or beverage container manufacturer's funded reduce, reuse, recycle ads when government was looking at bottle deposits? If the problem is that of individuals, then we don't pass policy that puts ownership of change on the markets that need to change. It's the very same reason that shutting down Oilsands production isn't going to curb demand, only make it more expensive. At the end of the day these are systemic issues needing systemic change (meaning policy shifts) and not just guilt people into changing. Why should you sell your gas vehicle and buy and electric one just to be a better person? That's stupid

Great post, I will say in-regards to a problem that is nearing 8 billion people strong, any time you start to fine grain it down to any small group of individuals for any reason it becomes a rounding error, but it also doesn't mean we can ignore the rounding errors, it means we need to start aggregating them, and picking up any wins possible.

People should buy EVs, because it is part of the solution, and because we need to create the market that will allows us collectively to push expensive grid upgrades and re-charging infrastructure. But most of all people should buy 1 EV if they have a vehicle household and the ability to charge at home, because they are better vehicles that are easier to maintain and cheaper to operate.

And with all of that said I wouldn't feel guilty about the SUV, but I would be thinking forward to when you are ready to switch to an EV for all of the reasons above.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

F1 power units are the most efficient ICE hybrid that exists, by a long shot. They go through 100l per race, plus quality and practice, so 300l max x 20 cars x 23 races. That's 138 000 litres, plus pre season testing, so round it up to 200k. Pretty small potatoes. All the logistics are the worst part, but they are working towards net zero.


No idea on Nascar, probably way worse and should be cancelled and exploded.

The numbers don't look that bad when presented that way but realistically that is still around 8mpg if I'm not mistaken which isn't very impressive.

[Matata]

anything can be net zero if you buy enough offsets

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

NASCAR will be net zero by 2035.

Ya, hopefully they get there by ceasing to exist.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

The numbers don't look that bad when presented that way but realistically that is still around 8mpg if I'm not mistaken which isn't very impressive.

Sure, if you overlook the acceleration and speeds that require overcoming massive drag. All from a 1.6 L engine.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Matata

anything can be net zero if you buy enough offsets

Yup, and that's a problem. There's a very proven and effective solution to that, but I'm afraid you're not going to love it...


*Whispers "carbon tax...."

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ya, hopefully they get there by ceasing to exist.

We get it, you don't like NASCAR.

Some people do, like me.

You can stop posting about how much you hate it anytime now.

[calumniate]

When i think of NASCAR I think of a car lot of fans towing their fifth wheels and campers to the site with f250s.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by calumniate

When i think of NASCAR I think of a car lot of fans towing their fifth wheels and campers to the site with f250s.

The yachts and private jets that fans of F1 use are not that much different than the trucks and trailers at Nascar.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

The yachts and private jets that fans of F1 use are not that much different than the trucks and trailers at Nascar.

Not really. They are actually much much worse.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Not really. They are actually much much worse.

Guess you missed my post.