It seems every single one of those items that needs to be addressed would cost money. Add all of those items up, and we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not into the millions) for each care home. I don't see where that money comes from, but absolutely agree (who wouldn't?) that the level of care is insufficient.
I really wonder if you walked around on of these care homes with fecal matter everywhere, people wandering around with COVID and cockroach infestations and asked the residents if they just wanted to say their goodbyes and be on their way how many would take you up on that. I think a huge percentage. Once that's done, all the problems could be solved. It is the best solution if people want to voluntarily accept it.
It's blindingly obvious we don't have the resources to provide the level of care people expect us to be able to provide. I mean, "heads should roll." What? Let's find out what is going on, and what people are willing to give up in order to afford the gargantuan sums of money you're proposing need to be injected into old folks' homes in order to get them up to a standard we'd ourselves be willing to live in.
I know for me, I won't live in an institution at any point in my life if I can help it. My last days won't be in a #### bed in a #### building with #### staff eating #### food. I'll bow out before I hit that point - it'll save taxpayers 10s or 100s of thousands and I won't have to live in purgatory for a decade or so, which is priceless to me. Plus, I'd rather leave my kids/grandkids with some money before I blow it all living in a craphole.
I'm not going to pretend to know the answers to all of this. I'm not an expert in senior home-care or an accountant who can run the numbers on what this will cost. But what I DO know, if you read the report, is that a ton of what is happening right now is very wrong, immoral and illegal. Re-using catheters? Insect infested units? Verbal abuse to tenants? You're damn right heads should roll for that.
I'm happy you say you won't live in an assisted living unit when you're older, but unless you have a crystal ball you have no way of knowing. Maybe you end up with dementia and your family is physically unable to take care of you (like what happened with 2 of my grandparents). Maybe your family, god forbid, decides that a care center works best financially for the family since you somehow ended up with financial hardships down the road. Maybe another scenario you never saw coming happens. But regardless of what happens, some people ARE going to choose those facilities and it's just not damn good enough what is happening now.
I'm glad this all got brought to light, even though it's uncomfortable to think about. Hopefully these investigations address your point of what people are willing to give up in order to afford the gargantuan sums of money, if that is feasible.
I haven't really been following what has been happening with assisted suicides or the legality of it in Canada. I've personally always supported it if people want to do that when they are older. That's probably part of the solution going forward, but not everyone is going to choose that option.
I'm not going to pretend to know the answers to all of this. I'm not an expert in senior home-care or an accountant who can run the numbers on what this will cost. But what I DO know, if you read the report, is that a ton of what is happening right now is very wrong, immoral and illegal. Re-using catheters? Insect infested units? Verbal abuse to tenants? You're damn right heads should roll for that.
I'm happy you say you won't live in an assisted living unit when you're older, but unless you have a crystal ball you have no way of knowing. Maybe you end up with dementia and your family is physically unable to take care of you (like what happened with 2 of my grandparents). Maybe your family, god forbid, decides that a care center works best financially for the family since you somehow ended up with financial hardships down the road. Maybe another scenario you never saw coming happens. But regardless of what happens, some people ARE going to choose those facilities and it's just not damn good enough what is happening now.
I'm glad this all got brought to light, even though it's uncomfortable to think about. Hopefully these investigations address your point of what people are willing to give up in order to afford the gargantuan sums of money, if that is feasible.
I haven't really been following what has been happening with assisted suicides or the legality of it in Canada. I've personally always supported it if people want to do that when they are older. That's probably part of the solution going forward, but not everyone is going to choose that option.
I did read the report. My conclusion was: since we can't afford to provide the level of care that we would like, we need fewer old people in the homes. To do that, we should offer medically assisted suicide to those who would want that. You don't need to be an accountant to know remedying all the issues outlined in the report would cost a ton of money.
The only way I'll end up in an institution is if I suffer some sort of sudden event that forces me in there against my will. I won't do the slow decline thing until somebody's changing my diapers and I'm drooling all over myself.
The medically-assisted suicide thing seems to be going well. My company actually donates a product to a team that performs the procedure because I do feel so strongly about the need to make that option more mainstream.
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Voluntary? Sure. Being serious about mandatory dnrs is one of the dumbest and most barbaric things I've read on here. So many people are vibrant, relatively healthy and active after 80. You really have no clue if in fact you are being genuine.
Youth really does seem to be wasted on the young.
Our population is too large and too old. We're going to have a generation of workers supporting 3 generations of retired people. This is not sustainable economically and it's not sustainable from a climate perspective.
Are you willing to do what it takes to solve climate change or not?
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While the details of the neglect in care centers are awful, there's nothing at all surprising here. Experts have been warning for many years that we're unprepared for the tidal wave of aging Canadians and how it will slam our health care system, seniors care, and pensions.
Little is done about it because the only solution - dramatically increasing spending and taxes - is politically untenable. Aging voters don't want to pay more because they believe (mistakenly*) that they already paid enough taxes in their life to cover this. Younger voters complain (understandably) that they can't be expected to pay higher taxes to cover the costs of older generations while also saving for their own retirement expenses. And nobody wants to break the taboo and ask why it's simply a given that we should extend lifespans higher and higher without any regard for the cost or our ability to pay it.
A commission or panel isn't going to sort this out with a checklist of better practices. It's a matter of money. Lots and lots and lots of money.
* The figures for how much our health care system spends on a typical person on just the final six months of life are staggering.
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If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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Our population is too large and too old. We're going to have a generation of workers supporting 3 generations of retired people. This is not sustainable economically and it's not sustainable from a climate perspective.
Are you willing to do what it takes to solve climate change or not?
I did read the report. My conclusion was: since we can't afford to provide the level of care that we would like, we need fewer old people in the homes. To do that, we should offer medically assisted suicide to those who would want that. You don't need to be an accountant to know remedying all the issues outlined in the report would cost a ton of money.
The only way I'll end up in an institution is if I suffer some sort of sudden event that forces me in there against my will. I won't do the slow decline thing until somebody's changing my diapers and I'm drooling all over myself.
The medically-assisted suicide thing seems to be going well. My company actually donates a product to a team that performs the procedure because I do feel so strongly about the need to make that option more mainstream.
How much would it cost?
Would the $1.5 billion dollars in dividends they've paid out cover it?
And we get you are pro assisted death. I am too. But some people aren't - for religious reasons, personal reasons or just don't want to die reasons. Some people end up in these long term care places because of a disability or an accident and aren't 80 years old. And we shouldn't have those people who end up in these places rolling around in filth and cockroaches.
Would the $1.5 billion dollars in dividends they've paid out cover it?
Not even close.
As of 2016, there were an estimated 564,000 Canadians with dementia. By 2031, that number is expected to rise to 937,000. The combined cost to the public health care system and out-of-pocket caregiver expenses in 2016 amounted to $10.4 billion. By 2031 that figure is expected to increase to $16.6 billion.
And that's just for dementia. It doesn't include any of the other health conditions seniors need care for, or the residents in care homes who don't suffer from dementia (which is most of them).
And we get you are pro assisted death. I am too. But some people aren't - for religious reasons, personal reasons or just don't want to die reasons. Some people end up in these long term care places because of a disability or an accident and aren't 80 years old. And we shouldn't have those people who end up in these places rolling around in filth and cockroaches.
Exactly. That's why we need be housing fewer people.
Imagine if when dogs got old and infirm we sent them to institutions and just left them there. If they got sick, we'd medicate them to keep them alive in their infirm condition. If they were diseased, we'd treat their disease so they could hang on a little longer. The prognosis was death: they were never going to leave that place and they'd steadily decline. Every day would be harder than the last.
Personally, I'd find that heartbreaking and I don't even like dogs. I just hate seeing suffering.
That's what we're doing to people, though. I mean, just look in the "Euthanasia and your pet" thread. I think it would be tasteless to link to specific posts, but these are the kinds of things people say about putting down their family member:
She has had a long list of medical issues over the past 6 months but at this point they have decided the best thing for her is to say goodbye and let her be at peace.
he definitely fell asleep in the happiest way possible
It is the greatest act of love when it is needed.
It almost looked like he was finally happy to be out of pain. He passed away quietly and extremely peacefully.
I'd say in the context of our pets, most - if not all - people agree it's totally inhumane to limp a life along that has been reduced to pain and misery. Look at all the boomers that are going to be heading to old folks homes over the next 20 years. We cannot afford the level of care we all know people require. We can't eradicate pain and suffering. There is just no fataing way.
Obviously we can't have cockroaches running around, but no matter how much money you throw at this - and there isn't enough money in the world, btw - you can't give all seniors a pleasant life in an institution.
We need to start showing our seniors and infirm the same degree of love and care we show to our animals.
And fata religion, anyway. I don't care what your beliefs are, in the real world we need to think practically.
A worldwide quest is under way to find new treatments to stop, slow or even prevent Alzheimer's disease. Because new drugs take years to produce from concept to market — and because drugs that seem promising in early-stage studies may not work as hoped in large-scale trials — it is critical that Alzheimer's and other dementia research continues to accelerate. To advance this effort, the Alzheimer's Association funds researchers looking at new treatment strategies and advocates for more federal funding of Alzheimer's research.
Many drugs in development aim to interrupt the disease process itself by impacting one or more of the brain changes associated with Alzheimer’s. These changes offer potential targets for new drugs to slow or stop the progress of the disease. Researchers believe successful treatment will eventually involve a combination of medications aimed at several targets, similar to current treatments for many cancers and AIDS.
Too late for my Dad, but there may be more effective treatments available in 10-20 years.
Voluntary? Sure. Being serious about mandatory dnrs is one of the dumbest and most barbaric things I've read on here. So many people are vibrant, relatively healthy and active after 80. You really have no clue if in fact you are being genuine.
Youth really does seem to be wasted on the young.
As long as you are relatively healthy your DNR is irrelevant. Do Not Resuscitate only comes into play when you are on deaths door step and cannot recover without serious intervention and subsequent quality of life is degraded.
As long as you are relatively healthy your DNR is irrelevant. Do Not Resuscitate only comes into play when you are on deaths door step and cannot recover without serious intervention and subsequent quality of life is degraded.
Did you read the post I quoted? He was saying no cancer treatments or surgery after 80. Period. Lots of healthy over 80's need surgery or have cancer treatments and recover...and are happy.
So whatever you are arguing isn't what I was talking about.
Anyways I'm out, this a beyond stupid conversion. Have at 'er boys!
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