Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Crazy. I feel for the business owners who are getting caught up in this madness. I know people are saying there is no other way for people to protest, but already someone has died as a result of this with that shooting. How many lives are worth the protest? How much property damage to innocent store owners and municipal buildings that end up throwing the city into further turmoil?

It's all horrible, but man I can't think that the risk of more people dying is the answer. The officers lost their jobs, they are looking into charges. I think a strong message has been sent. Let's stop this before more innocent people die.

Okay let's stop everyone.

Two weeks later....

Repeat.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Maybe, just maybe, if every african-american centered protest didn't result in riot cops running people down, tear gassing, and water cannons, thing wouldn't escalate.

Why do cops in the US bring out the riot gear for people marching in the streets, but not for those storming government houses with ARs?

And Colin Kaepernick got fired and death threats for his peaceful protest which ultimately did nothing.

To butcher a Sam Kinison quote, I don’t condone violent uprising, but I understand it.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I look forward to being called a racist for this imminently reasonable take.

I'm not going to come down on you for being racist, but I will say that I am deeply offended that you mixed up "imminently" and "eminently".

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Maybe, just maybe, if every african-american centered protest didn't result in riot cops running people down, tear gassing, and water cannons, thing wouldn't escalate.

The thing always escalates, pretty much from the get-go. In this case you had people generally being an unruly mob engaging in civil disobedience, which is all well and good. And then you had a minority of those people thinking "hey, let's break some ####". Those are the people that cause the tear gas to be deployed.

I'm not sure exactly how smashing up storefronts does anything positive. The response, "well, peaceful protesting doesn't seem to have fixed the problem either" is not really a counter-argument. You actually need to explain why this strategy is going to help advance the cause. Who pays for the damage caused? The community as a whole. Whose storefronts are those? Do they belong to police officers? Hell, I'd be surprised if a bunch of them weren't owned by African Americans or immigrant families. What end goal is served by hurting these people?

Again, the initial reaction to this event was cynicism - "I bet they'll just get off easy". Instead, they've been fired and the Mayor is hell-bent on seeing the person who actually committed the act thrown in prison. It seems to me that the best catalyst for change would be to have every eye in the country - including those belonging to Police officers - fixed on that rather unexpected development. That is a message - " take care, officers, because if you treat the life of your suspect with recklessness or indifference, your own life might very soon be ruined". I don't know what message you think rioting sends.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

Okay let's stop everyone.

Two weeks later....

Repeat.

So the answer is to keep rioting and have more innocents die?

I just don't understand the logic here. I'm not saying stop any form of protest, but there has to be a better route than burn buildings down and shoot each other.

The fire fighters showing up to put the fires out were having rocks and other projectiles hurled at them and their fire trucks, like how the hell does that make sense?

Anyone promoting this form of protest is an idiot. Plain and simple. BURN THE CITY DOWN!! Oh you're a fire fighter just doing your job that had absolutely NOTHING to do with the murder of Flloyd? Here have a rock in the face.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Well you can only imagine how catastrophic and destructive the riot will be if the cop finds a way to walk at the end of this. For that reason alone they need him to go to jail.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I know when I want to effect broad change the first thing I do is go looting at Target and snatch a vacuum cleaner and some 4K TVs.

The usual suspects defending this behaviour played the same card with the Ferguson riots in 2014. When it was pointed out that destroying property in your own community and taking attention from protesting a possible injustice was probably counter productive they didn't want to hear it. We've seen this movie before so I'd love to hear from them what broad societal change was achieved by the Ferguson riots since it was a method endorsed by them. Or maybe it wasn't violent and destructive enough and that was the true problem.

This seems from all accounts to be police brutality resulting in death and the guy should be tried for some degree of murder. People have a right to be angry and protest peacefully until they feel like justice has been served. What you do not have the right to do is riot, incur violence, and destroy property in your own community. I look forward to being called a racist for this imminently reasonable take.

I mean if you're more concerned with the destruction and theft of private property and the "reasonableness" of the protesters than you are the systemic brutalizing and murdering of an entire race of people, then I'm not sure what you expect people to think of you. Maybe it's not explicitly racist, but it's inherently lacking in compassion, empathy and humanity.

[Looch City]

I wouldn't say "promoting it", rather that it was inevitable. America is basically reaping what they sowed.

[White Out 403]

I dont blame black people for this outrage. Policing in the US has been in crisis for years, and innocent people are dying.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I'm not going to come down on you for being racist, but I will say that I am deeply offended that you mixed up "imminently" and "eminently".

The thing always escalates, pretty much from the get-go. In this case you had people generally being an unruly mob engaging in civil disobedience, which is all well and good. And then you had a minority of those people thinking "hey, let's break some ####". Those are the people that cause the tear gas to be deployed.

I'm not sure exactly how smashing up storefronts does anything positive. The response, "well, peaceful protesting doesn't seem to have fixed the problem either" is not really a counter-argument. You actually need to explain why this strategy is going to help advance the cause. Who pays for the damage caused? The community as a whole. Whose storefronts are those? Do they belong to police officers? Hell, I'd be surprised if a bunch of them weren't owned by African Americans or immigrant families. What end goal is served by hurting these people?

Again, the initial reaction to this event was cynicism - "I bet they'll just get off easy". Instead, they've been fired and the Mayor is hell-bent on seeing the person who actually committed the act thrown in prison. It seems to me that the best catalyst for change would be to have every eye in the country - including those belonging to Police officers - fixed on that rather unexpected development. That is a message - " take care, officers, because if you treat the life of your suspect with recklessness or indifference, your own life might very soon be ruined". I don't know what message you think rioting sends.

This.

I get the anger cause watching that video was just gross and pissed me off to no end, I get the want for revenge (though that seems to have been addressed in this case quickly with likely more to come) and I get that its not everyone who is causing damage but those that are can be found among those that are not.

Stopping those who are setting fires and looting has to fall to those they are hiding among. Cops certainly cant go in and do anything about it without all hell breaking loose.

So those who want to exact change and are using mass protesting as a vehicle to do so, must ask themselves what this is all accomplishing other than putting police on edge (which does no one any good) punishing innocent business owners and taxpayers, and possibly seeing more loss of life....and then highlight and stop the looters/arsonists while still protesting lawfully.

[rubecube]

Or, you know, maybe there are just opportunists seeking to exploit an event for their own personal gains (like literally every other crisis/protest) and we shouldn't just lump them in with the people who are actually fighting for justice. But I get that it's much more comfortable for some people to dismiss the need for reform because some TVs got stolen.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Or, you know, maybe there are just opportunists seeking to exploit an event for their own personal gains (like literally every other crisis/protest) and we shouldn't just lump them in with the people who are actually fighting for justice. But I get that it's much more comfortable for some people to dismiss the need for reform because some TVs got stolen.

Also...this has been going on for how long in Hong Kong?

Maybe not a completely fair comparison but we're seeing police brutality on both accounts there and the violence and looting that ensues.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Or, you know, maybe there are just opportunists seeking to exploit an event for their own personal gains (like literally every other crisis/protest) and we shouldn't just lump them in with the people who are actually fighting for justice. But I get that it's much more comfortable for some people to dismiss the need for reform because some TVs got stolen.

Has anyone done this?

[octothorp]

Yeah, I have a huge problem with the expectation that black people are supposed to stop other black people from criminal activity here. Why? Because they share the same ethnicity? I've certainly got no special powers to prevent another white guy from smashing something up. I mean, I'd give it my best 'hey man, that's not cool', but I'm not going to put my life on the line for the benefit of local businesses.

It's a country where the police can't seem to police themselves even when watching a fellow officer commit murder. And citizens are supposed to police themselves? They're not the ones who are actually (or supposedly) trained in de-escalating dangerous situations.

If this was just about this one death, I don't think there'd be riots and protests given the swift firing and likely impending charges. But it's not just about this death. A lot of people in these communities find themselves in stressful, unnecessary situations with law enforcement on a regular basis, with risk of injury or imprisonment or even death. That's the really ####ty situation that needs to be fixed, and not even swift and thorough convictions of these cops will fix that problem. Until that changes, every highly visible death like this one is going to be a lightning rod for all that justifiable anger.

[OMG!WTF!]

Rioting worked well in LA. 64 dead and a billion 1992 dollars in damage definitely got some attention.

[dammage79]

Looters beating and hosing down a woman in a powered wheelchair with a fire extinguisher at a target wasn't the best optics. Yes, the woman was trying to stop the looting and maybe should have stayed the hell out of the way but damn.

Unfortunate consequences of police brutality.

And let's not forget that anything after those cops killed that man is directly tied to their responsibility. That's THEIR fault, not anyone else. Treat a human with compassion and none of this happens. None of it.

[activeStick]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAsWCO8H...d=fyz3vnlcfoox

[ResAlien]

Why aren’t these people who are perpetually victimized by state sponsored murder protesting in a manner I find agreeable? What’s that? They tried that with Black Lives Matter? Yes but you see my response to that was “all lives matter” and I was not very fond of the tone they took, not one bit. It was a little rude. This rioting business is simply poor form. Tut tut I say, tut tut indeed.

[GreenLantern]

What the hell is going on here. Am I in bizzaro world? People are absolved of their actions because of what a cop did to someone else?

Oh lord. Ok. I’m coming over to your house to protest and I’m going to smash out your front window and start your car on fire. But don’t blame me, blame society. I’m just protesting.

That is literally what happened over night. Innocent people who had nothing to do with this incident are having their entire lives turned upside down. And that is just ok? It’s a consequence of police actions? How about if it happened to you? Would you say the same thing?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Has anyone done this?

No. No one was lumping the opportunistic rioters in with the other protestors, either - the first thing I did in my post (which transplant was agreeing with there) was to point out that difference. Plenty of straw men being hastily built in here. Case in point...

Originally Posted by octothorp

I have a huge problem with the expectation that black people are supposed to stop other black people from criminal activity here.

No one has said anything remotely similar to this, either.

I honestly resent the way that Rube argues about these issues. It's just all emotionally charged hyperbole (the "systemic murder of an entire race of people"), unfair and un-nuanced caricatures of what other people are saying, and accusations of racism and not being concerned with police violence, as if you can't be opposed to two things at once. It's just a rhetorical smokescreen to disguise the fact that he doesn't really have a tenable argument. It's galling that he'll take personal shots at peoples' motivations and try to cast them as uncaring monsters to cover up his own inability to think clearly on these topics. I get that this makes you angry and upset, I can understand that reaction, but it's really no excuse.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

What the hell is going on here. Am I in bizzaro world? People are absolved of their actions because of what a cop did to someone else?

Oh lord. Ok. I’m coming over to your house to protest and I’m going to smash out your front window and start your car on fire. But don’t blame me, blame society. I’m just protesting.

That is literally what happened over night. Innocent people who had nothing to do with this incident are having their entire lives turned upside down. And that is just ok? It’s a consequence of police actions? How about if it happened to you? Would you say the same thing?

Yeah that's war for you. Not fair but sometimes necessary.