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Old 06-02-2021, 10:14 AM   #21
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MaK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>inhale>>>>>>>>>>>>> McDingus and Matthews
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Old 06-02-2021, 10:19 AM   #22
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He wasn't that clear. Certainly not like McDavid or Crosby. Probably closer to Hall and Seguin where no one would have been super surprised if Tyler went ahead of Taylor. Except there were sort of the four with MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin and less-so Barkov. At least that's what media would have had us believe.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=88636

(Jones is first)

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/2013-...aft-rankings-1

(Jones is first)

https://thehockeywriters.com/2013-nh...ouin-decision/

(Drouin is first, MacKinnon third)

https://www.mckeenshockey.com/prospe...february-2013/

(Jones is first, MacKinnon third)
The only realistic discussion for anyone over MacKinnon was Jones, and even that was very unlikely, as Cs are a safer bet than Ds in the high picks. Drouin and Barkov were great prospects, but a tier below MacKinnon and were never going to go 1st overall.

MacKinnon was being compared to Crosby pre-draft. He was the clear #1, even in a stacked draft class.
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Old 06-02-2021, 10:29 AM   #23
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MacKinnon was being compared to Crosby pre-draft. He was the clear #1, even in a stacked draft class.
Yeah, you're right can't see anyone not choosing him.

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1) Jones
2) MacKinnon
3) Nichushkin
4) Drouin
5) Barkov
6) Monahan
7) Lindholm (Oilers trade the pick)
8) Nurse
9) Fucale
10) Shinkaruk
An elite center prospect from Cole Harbour would have been compared to Crosby even if he was selected in the second round.
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Old 06-02-2021, 10:40 AM   #24
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Yeah, Jones was highly thought of too (but the other guys weren't close)

Just goes to show once again - always take the C

Interesting thread - were we predicting how it would go, or were we making our own rankings? I clearly was under the the weather that day! Or hacked!
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Old 06-02-2021, 10:53 AM   #25
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Yeah, Jones was highly thought of too (but the other guys weren't close)
And yet Jones was drafted behind those other guys who weren't close.

Obviously the Avs got it right, but if you read CP you would have thought that Jones was the consensus number 1. And yet he went fourth. The point was that no, MacKinnon wasn't the undisputed number 1 by the media and fans, but all it matters was how the Avs saw it obviously.

It's sort of like the Kane draft where, despite his success now, there was several players in the Turris ilk that wouldn't have been surprising to go first overall that draft year based on mock drafts, media, central scouting etc.

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Old 06-02-2021, 10:55 AM   #26
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I wonder how Oiler fans feel now that they know they don't actually have the best player in the world afterall.
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Old 06-02-2021, 10:55 AM   #27
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I think every single team would have taken Nate
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Old 06-02-2021, 11:02 AM   #28
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And yet Jones was drafted behind those other guys who weren't close...

Obviously the Avs got it right, but if you read CP you would have thought that Jones was the consensus number 1. And yet he went fourth. The point was that no, MacKinnon wasn't the undisputed number 1 by the media and fans, but all it matters was how the Avs saw it obviously.

It's sort of like the Kane draft where, despite his success now, there was several players in the Turris ilk that wouldn't have been surprising to go first overall that draft year based on mock drafts, media, central scouting etc.
Speculation comes from fans and media. The draft comes from GMs.

MacKinnon was the top forward. Jones, despite the hype, was taken 4th (which goes back to forwards being safer bets). It also may have been a function of need with one or two of the other teams.

MacKinnon was considered to have super-star potential, regardless of what CP polls looked like.
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Old 06-02-2021, 11:05 AM   #29
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I think every single team would have taken Nate
Maybe. But in the mock draft thread for predictions that I quoted Enoch's post from, I believe the first 13 posters had Jones going 1st. It wasn't until Fire in post #22 that MacKinnon was finally picked first. This was in the off-season just weeks before the draft. So, while maybe every team would have, certainly not our esteemed armchair GM's.
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Old 06-02-2021, 11:09 AM   #30
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Maybe. But in the mock draft thread for predictions that I quoted Enoch's post from, I believe the first 13 posters had Jones going 1st. It wasn't until Fire in post #22 that MacKinnon was finally picked first. This was in the off-season just weeks before the draft. So, while maybe every team would have, certainly not our esteemed armchair GM's.
That thread probably happened at a time when Jones had some articles written about him and the media was slanting things in that direction. It may have looked quite different a couple weeks earlier or later. Hard to say, but far from unlikely.
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Old 06-02-2021, 11:09 AM   #31
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Well Gretzky had 98 points in his first 45 playoff games (completed when he was 23). Lemieux had 90 (done so when he was 26).



They hurt their own averages when old man Lemieux was only able to put up a measley 17 points in 18 games as a 35 year old coming back from retirement for the second time after his ailments.
Right, but before they start to dip MacKinnon's averages are going to continue to rise. In tbe last two seasons he has been producing close to 2.0 pts/GP in tbd playoffs, and nearly a goal per game. I have no doubt he will keep tbat up for at least a few more years.

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Old 06-02-2021, 11:17 AM   #32
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Right, but before they start to dip MacKinnon numbers are going to continue to rise. In tbe last two seasons he has been producing close to 2.0 pts/GP in tbd playoffs, and nearly a goal per game. I have no doubt he will keep tbat up for at least a few more years.

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Not that I'm trying to #### on the guy who I wouldn't take issue with anyone saying he is the best player in the world.

But, I would be a bit cautious. First, rarely do players get more productive after 25. But even then, last year MacKinnon had 10 points in 5 games against the 11th seeded Coyotes. We shouldn't expect to see an 11 seed in the playoffs for the rest of MacKinnon's career.
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Old 06-02-2021, 11:22 AM   #33
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Not that I'm trying to #### on the guy who I wouldn't take issue with anyone saying he is the best player in the world.



But, I would be a bit cautious. First, rarely do players get more productive after 25. But even then, last year MacKinnon had 10 points in 5 games against the 11th seeded Coyotes. We shouldn't expect to see an 11 seed in the playoffs for the rest of MacKinnon's career.
He doesn't have to get more productive. He has been producing nearly two points a game for two years now. There is no reason at all to think that is going to slip anytime soon.

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Old 06-02-2021, 11:25 AM   #34
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He doesn't have to get more productive. He has been producing nearly two points a game for two years now. There is no reason at all to think that is going to slip anytime soon.

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well it might (not saying it will) in 3rd and 4th rounds- guess just saying he could still be as awesome as ever but have his production drop off a bit
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Old 06-02-2021, 11:29 AM   #35
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That thread probably happened at a time when Jones had some articles written about him and the media was slanting things in that direction. It may have looked quite different a couple weeks earlier or later. Hard to say, but far from unlikely.
The media often tries to hype a the second guy just to boost interest. It happened with Taylor/Tyler (they happened to be right) but also with Eichel (even though it was clearly going to be McDavid), and a few others I can remember.
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Old 06-02-2021, 11:34 AM   #36
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The media often tries to hype a the second guy just to boost interest. It happened with Taylor/Tyler (they happened to be right) but also with Eichel (even though it was clearly going to be McDavid), and a few others I can remember.

Taylor / Tyler . Huge rivalry, fascinating soap opera. Taylor eventually worked hard, and it was the long game, but was able to get out of Edmonton, and finally land in Boston. Should be an inspiration to all kids drafted by the Oilers
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Old 06-02-2021, 11:45 AM   #37
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The media often tries to hype a the second guy just to boost interest. It happened with Taylor/Tyler (they happened to be right) but also with Eichel (even though it was clearly going to be McDavid), and a few others I can remember.
Yeah, Eichel is a great example. The media tried to make it a big 2-way race but in reality, there was a large gap between them.
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Old 06-02-2021, 11:58 AM   #38
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I don't think it was that 'easy' of a decision at the draft. MacKinnon was 'out-shined' by his teammate at the time, Drouin. Jones was considered to be almost a generational defencemen. There were serious questions about this kid who was thought of as 'the next one' for a few years before the draft, and how he DIDN'T stand out as compared to his draft class.


I remember most of the talk revolving around the 'top 3' with Barkov being by himself at #4.



Many lists had Jones 1st from what I remember. Jones was THAT well-thought of. He had the size, speed, 2-way ability, and came from an athletic family to boot. Many people thought that Sakic was going to draft Jones. Sakic was friends with his dad (even gave Popeye advice on hockey and stuff, when Seth got interested in hockey at a younger age). Avs were also woefully terrible defensively as well. There was a bit of surprise when Sakic ended up picking MacKinnon. In fact, for a few years afterwards, there were still people that felt that it was a blunder in not choosing the home-town feel good story that was going to be a franchise-level defencemen.


I think only Tampa screwed it up. Can you imagine Tampa with Jones instead of Sergachev right now? I mean, Sergachev is a great young defencemen in his own right, but he doesn't control the game like Jones did. What a way to turn that pick around, however, considering how disappointing the Drouin pick became. Nashville did the opposite in my opinion, and traded a franchise defencemen for a 2nd line centre. Funny how that worked out.



I have also felt that MacKinnon has been the best player in the world for a few years now. If he was committed at playing McDavid hockey, I bet he would have his butt kissed even more often on TV. The fact that he is THAT good everywhere on the ice, and in all circumstances? Offence, defence, physicality, ability to elevate his game, leadership, composure... he has zero weaknesses. He doesn't take shortcuts.


McDavid is an amazing talent, obviously. Just because he is a dirty rotten stinkin Oiler doesn't mean I can't give him his due respect. He is a fricken amazing offensive talent. The way he gets his shot off, and how he has that knack of knowing how to overtake someone with his speed almost at will? That's an exciting player. Not as dynamic in the way he scores (IMO) as MacKinnon, but he is generational I would say, offensively.


Everywhere else McDavid is lacking. Defence? LoL. Physicality? No, if anything, you can really see how he wilts under that physical attack in the playoffs. Leadership? Yeah, him smirking and making fun of Bear's defence is showing a tonne of leadership there.



I will bet on McDavid to win the next 3 scoring races. I have no problem in saying that unless there is some unforeseen injury, McDavid will be the highest scoring forward in the NHL for the next foreseeable future. That, however, does not make him the best player.


That's MacKinnon, and MacKinnon is getting better and better every season too. That's scary.



It wasn't the brainless 'can't miss' only an idiot would pick someone else selection by Sakic. Jones was in many ways the easier pick, all things considered. Good on Sakic for ignoring all the noise, and just picking the best player available. MacKinnon is the best player of this generation, and it has nothing to do with McDavid being an Oiler.
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Old 06-02-2021, 12:00 PM   #39
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I remember in 2013 being more interested in Drouin for fantasy hockey purposes, as some predicted he'd be the more prolific scorer. I'm still not even sure how TB borked that one up so bad. the Sam Bennett experience is certainly not unique to the Flames, it just stings us harder because we haven't gotten multiple cracks in that top 5 realm to make up for it.
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Old 06-02-2021, 12:47 PM   #40
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The media often tries to hype a the second guy just to boost interest. It happened with Taylor/Tyler (they happened to be right) but also with Eichel (even though it was clearly going to be McDavid), and a few others I can remember.
Comparing Eichel vs McDavid to Seguin vs Hall is ludicrous. During the lottery of the 2015 draft they had McDavid there in studio and when the Oilers won they asked how he felt to go to the Oilers. That was well before the actual draft lol. There was no debate. There was an "Eichel would be a 1st overall on nearly any other year except this one" type discussion, which was pretty much true.
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