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Old 07-05-2012, 12:50 PM   #2281
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Calgary is holding up pretty well right now I think.

http://www.findcalgary.ca/

But it's interesting to see how Vancouver, in particular, has really shifted. Inventory at a decade high, sales at a decade (and longer?) low. This is even before the amortizations got back to the original 25 years. Calgary this year is better than last year (of course noting that the previous two years has been decade lows in terms of sales)

Though I guess the OFSI just started pushing for stuff like actual income proof standards and such - should be interesting to see what happens after an small anticipated blip this week as the new rules come into effect. They're still pretty much handing out free money at these rates, I'm still surprised that sales aren't way way higher.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:11 PM   #2282
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Originally Posted by Realtor 1 View Post
The name and brokerage of every real estate agent involved in the bidding war is given by the list agent for the other agents to verify.

Just to follow up on the earlier conversation, I saw this today:

http://www.moneyville.ca/article/122...-no-rival-bids


It should be mandatory for listing agents to provide potential buyers with a roster of all brokers and agents making offers on the same property — before the presentation of offers begins, says Stern, who believed there were three interested bidders.

It was only when the listing agent came back to her “10 minutes later” to say her clients’ bid had been accepted that Stern realized there was something wrong. She had been expecting a late night of bids and counter bids.


Why is it different in Toronto? CREB has stuff like:


16.02 (4) In the event that the Listing Brokerage has more than one written offer to be presented, prior to any offer being presented, the Listing Brokerage shall inform the other competing cooperating brokerages of the existence of all other written offers and/or counteroffers, unless given a lawful written instruction to the contrary from the Seller. Unless instructed not to, when the Listing Associate is dealing with competing Offers, the names of the competing Buyer’s Associates and the Brokerage will be provided to the Associates representing the competing Buyers.


Under no circumstances may the price or terms of a Purchase Contract which is under consideration be disclosed as a means of obtaining a better Purchase Contract from another party. The price, terms or conditions shall not be disclosed, except to the Seller.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:25 PM   #2283
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Warnings on debt keep ringing in like crazy and Canadians are happily ignoring it.

Sounds like most markets in Canada are starting to see the start of a slump. Certainly Toronto/Vancouver sales numbers and price are big in the news. People in Calgary still spending more in contrast to most other markets.



I think they held this same panel a few months ago, interesting how the tone has changed:

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2281458681/?page=2

Last edited by chemgear; 09-25-2012 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:40 PM   #2284
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Good read on Toronto
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:42 PM   #2285
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Which two years? 2008-2010? 2010-2012? Or 2012-2014? It's always hard to tell with this thread.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:42 PM   #2286
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Originally Posted by chemgear View Post
Warnings on debt keep ringing in like crazy and Canadians are happily ignoring it.

Sounds like most markets in Canada are starting to see the start of a slump. Certainly Toronto/Vancouver sales numbers and price are big in the news. People in Calgary still spending more in contrast to most other markets.



I think they held this same panel a few months ago, interesting how the tone has changed:

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2281458681/?page=2
Holy @&j@ , it is different here. Calgary that is.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:44 PM   #2287
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Holy @&j@ , it is different here. Calgary that is.
Holy @&j@.

BUY NOW!!!!
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:47 PM   #2288
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Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner View Post
Which two years? 2008-2010? 2010-2012? Or 2012-2014? It's always hard to tell with this thread.

Thanks to the government that gave us 40 year mortgages, cash back mortgages and emergency level low interest rates the inevitable was.....delayed or was it avoided?

Draw your own conclusions.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:59 AM   #2289
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Originally Posted by chemgear View Post
Warnings on debt keep ringing in like crazy and Canadians are happily ignoring it.

Sounds like most markets in Canada are starting to see the start of a slump. Certainly Toronto/Vancouver sales numbers and price are big in the news. People in Calgary still spending more in contrast to most other markets.



I think they held this same panel a few months ago, interesting how the tone has changed:

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2281458681/?page=2
I just have the impression that there is no pleasing you with this information. I think most posters here would say that (a) Calgary is in a different position than most of the others in that chart and (b) Toronto and Vancouver are both over-priced. This basically shows that, and shows signs of a softening in the Vancouver market and you still have the chicken little position.

The reality is that the softened market in Toronto and Vancouver are good news stories. If (as many predict) the bubble is more a balloon with values decreasing gradually its much better than a sudden bursting. (Although for your dire predictions this case might not be ideal). As far as Calgary being different, it just is. We have a wide range of factors that are different from other cities on that list, including but not limited to oil.

Just for the sake of old times though, can you remind me how many years we're behind the US again?
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:43 AM   #2290
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I just have the impression that there is no pleasing you with this information.
I think the information is interesting as always - it's good to see more data and varied opinions. It's why I appreciate the thread discussion and the forum in general.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:47 AM   #2291
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How are we different Slava?

What major changes happened in Toronto and Vancouver that did not happen in Calgary in the last 6 months? Why them, but not us here? Why did we crash in the past? Same rules, no?
Did they lose jobs there? Did immigration stop? We are a small town compared to Tor and Van, they should be able to weather the storm better that us here. Yet, here we are.

There are plenty of similarities between the three though:

cheap credit?- check
loose lending standards? - check
RE experiencing unreal growth in the last few years? - check
speculation and greed driving the market? - check

I don't think we are that different here. The very small inventory that we have had here lately is the only saving grace, but once things move again all bets are off.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:52 AM   #2292
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^^, I think you hit the nail in your last sentence, "...very small inventory..." They have been building like crazy in TO and VA, ultimately its about supply and demand.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:53 AM   #2293
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Originally Posted by Slava View Post
I just have the impression that there is no pleasing you with this information. I think most posters here would say that (a) Calgary is in a different position than most of the others in that chart and (b) Toronto and Vancouver are both over-priced. This basically shows that, and shows signs of a softening in the Vancouver market and you still have the chicken little position.

The reality is that the softened market in Toronto and Vancouver are good news stories. If (as many predict) the bubble is more a balloon with values decreasing gradually its much better than a sudden bursting. (Although for your dire predictions this case might not be ideal). As far as Calgary being different, it just is. We have a wide range of factors that are different from other cities on that list, including but not limited to oil.

Just for the sake of old times though, can you remind me how many years we're behind the US again?
Calgary's different in that it's residential Real Estate market already corrected 15-20% since 2007 after a massive run-up in prices. The rest of the country's massive run up in sales and prices occured when we were declining. A buyer at the margins of lending standrads in Calgary in 2007 is probably massively underwater, just as a 2011 buyer in Vancouver or Toronto will be soon.

Last edited by Cowboy89; 09-26-2012 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:00 AM   #2294
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Calgary's different in that it's residential Real Estate market already corrected 15-20% since 2007 after a massive run-up in prices. The rest of the country's massive run up in sales and prices occured when we were declining. A buyer at the margins of lending standrads in Calgary in 2007 is probably massively underwater, just as a 2011 buyer in Vancouver or Toronto will be soon.
Calgary wasn't the only place that corrected in 09.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:01 AM   #2295
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^^, I think you hit the nail in your last sentence, "...very small inventory..." They have been building like crazy in TO and VA, ultimately its about supply and demand.
This isn't just new homes.

Calgary inventory is historically lower that in years past.

Aug-12 3532
Jul-12 3640
Jun-12 3814
May-12 3839
Apr-12 3572
Mar-12 3367





Aug-11 4573
Jul-11 4630
Jun-11 4744
May-11 4616
Apr-11 4395
Mar-11 4024

Last edited by Red; 09-26-2012 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:11 AM   #2296
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Calgary wasn't the only place that corrected in 09.
What people tend to forget is that Calgary had created it's own overbuilding bust. Prices actually crested and started to fall in 2007 a full year and a half before oil prices were $150/bbl and then crashed to $40/bbl. Locals blame the RE slump soley on the recession, when in fact our own irrational exuberance (Toronto/Vancouver style) had kick started the process that was made worse by the recession.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:14 AM   #2297
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I'd also guess this has something to do with it?

http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...016/story.html

My anecdotal evidence indicates it's hard to find a place to rent right now. 2 bdrm condos are about $1,500/month in the Kensington area. Those same 2 bdrm condos are selling in the $250's and can be mortgaged for $1,300 ish (plus $300ish maint).
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:14 AM   #2298
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Calgary wasn't the only place that corrected in 09.
Maybe it's my poor memory kicking in, but I seem to remember us getting hammered earlier and harder in this department while Vancouver was talking about being "different".
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:16 AM   #2299
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The average prices in Vancouver and Toronto were significantly higher than Calgary.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:19 AM   #2300
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How are we different Slava?

What major changes happened in Toronto and Vancouver that did not happen in Calgary in the last 6 months? Why them, but not us here? Why did we crash in the past? Same rules, no?
Did they lose jobs there? Did immigration stop? We are a small town compared to Tor and Van, they should be able to weather the storm better that us here. Yet, here we are.

There are plenty of similarities between the three though:

cheap credit?- check
loose lending standards? - check
RE experiencing unreal growth in the last few years? - check
speculation and greed driving the market? - check

I don't think we are that different here. The very small inventory that we have had here lately is the only saving grace, but once things move again all bets are off.
Well I think that you've answered your own question here about how we are different at this point. Another major point to consider is that unemployment here is lower than it is elsewhere in the country, which in turn means that people are coming to Calgary and Alberta in general to find employment.

I do have to laugh at a couple of the points that you brought up as being similar though. Has Calgary been experiencing "unreal growth in the last few years"? I wouldn't say that. Are "speculation and greed driving the market" here? I wouldn't say that either. In Calgary what we have seen is a fairly natural correction after the boom until 2008. From the low point we have seen a gradual inflation of the housing prices. Speculators are potentially involved, but its hardly what we've seen in Toronto in the condo market in particular or in Vancouver.
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