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Old 10-04-2019, 08:09 PM   #1621
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Who was it that said ďIf youíre not a Liberal in your 20ís you donít have a heart. If youíre not a Conservative in your 40ís you donít have a brainĒ? Itís easy to have liberal socialist values when you live in your parentís basement or are not making much money. That tends to change as your career (and earnings) progresses, you gain more life experience and you pay a lot more taxes.

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Old 10-04-2019, 08:43 PM   #1622
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Who was it that said ďIf youíre not a Liberal in your 20ís you donít have a heart. If youíre not a Conservative in your 40ís you donít have a brainĒ? Itís easy to have liberal socialist values when you live in your parentís basement or are not making much money. That tends to change as your career (and earnings) progresses, you gain more life experience and you pay a lot more taxes.
I've gone the exact opposite.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:47 AM   #1623
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Insiders detail the last days of Jason Kenneyís campaign to be leader of Alberta's United Conservative Party

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/long...e-jason-kenney

This is a pretty big deal-Hoping the RCMP are looking into it as much as the CBC is.
There have been exactly 3 posts regarding this including the original quoted one above. I'm surprised there hasn't been more reaction to this.

It looks like the Kenney UCP leadership campaign may have broken the law, in addition to the Kamikaze campaign that has already seen penalties handed out.

And now Kenney is out east campaigning for Scheer. One hypothesis I've heard is that Kenney is still quite popular among the red-meat anti-immigrant base of the CPC in Ontario and Quebec while they are somewhat luke-warm to Scheer. It kinda seems like Kenney may already be angling towards some attention federally.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:57 AM   #1624
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The complete opposite actually. Why do people just make up in their heads that conservatives they don’t like are anti immigrant?

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During the Conservative years in Ottawa, Kenney was in charge of ethnic outreach on behalf of Stephen Harper’s government, even as he moved across cabinet roles. While by no means are voters in the 905 a consistent ethnic or political bloc, it’s an area where Kenney spent a considerable amount of time, is well liked and has contacts.
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:10 AM   #1625
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The complete opposite actually. Why do people just make up in their heads that conservatives they donít like are anti immigrant?
Itís because a portion of their base is the yellow vest, xxxx proud and rebel types. They ignore that the social conservatism of the party fits well with many of the immigrant communities social beliefs.
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Old 10-10-2019, 12:12 PM   #1626
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I know nobody likes the Canadian Taxpayers Association but these are some pretty incredible numbers on health care. Just to cherry pick a single number, Alberta docs average 413k in billing while Ontario is 316k. Are wages here that much better still?



http://www.taxpayer.com/media/2019-1...9Cq6hitz71T5EA

Last edited by OMG!WTF!; 10-10-2019 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 10-10-2019, 12:15 PM   #1627
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An update on the "War Room" that JK promised . . . It is now formally called the "Canadian Energy Centre", and has been set up as a corporation with Jason Nixon, Sonya Savage, and Doug Schweitzer as directors. This arrangement prevents anyone from making FOIP requests since it is not a public body and is instead a private entity.
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Old 10-10-2019, 12:16 PM   #1628
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Originally Posted by OMG!WTF! View Post
I know nobody likes the Canadian Taxpayers Association but these are some pretty incredible numbers on health care. Just to cherry pick a single number, Alberta docs average 413k in billing while Ontario is 316k. Are wages here that much better still?



http://www.taxpayer.com/media/2019-1...9Cq6hitz71T5EA
Yes.
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Old 10-10-2019, 01:50 PM   #1629
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Originally Posted by OMG!WTF! View Post
I know nobody likes the Canadian Taxpayers Association but these are some pretty incredible numbers on health care. Just to cherry pick a single number, Alberta docs average 413k in billing while Ontario is 316k. Are wages here that much better still?



http://www.taxpayer.com/media/2019-1...9Cq6hitz71T5EA
People don't like them because they mislead and twist numbers to support the outcome they want.

Why would they remove the outliers for salary at the bottom (less than $60,000) but not remove the top?

Why wouldn't they use median instead of average. I suspect it's because it doesn't support their desired outcome as much.

The median salary for a doctor in Alberta is $350,000. That's before they pay fees which are generally near or over 6 figures.

So if the typical doctor bills $350,000, then loses $100,000 off the top, they are then taxed on $250,000 that leaves them with what? About $160,000.


Is that too high? Maybe,but it's a far cry from $450,000.


They want to compare to Ontario. What are the median wages overall in Ontario (for all jobs) ? Are they lower than Alberta? That would also have an impact on cost of housing etc. So if wages in Alberta are 10% higher than Ontario, housing etc is likely to be more expensive, so doctors in Alberta should earn more than those in Ontario. Otherwise you'll just have doctors leaving Alberta for other places.

If they want to compare apples to apples they need to do a lot more analysis than this.

This is data for that garbage blue ribbon panel looking for a desired result so they can slash wages. This is an unbelievably biased piece of trash.

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Old 10-10-2019, 02:28 PM   #1630
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An update on the "War Room" that JK promised . . . It is now formally called the "Canadian Energy Centre", and has been set up as a corporation with Jason Nixon, Sonya Savage, and Doug Schweitzer as directors. This arrangement prevents anyone from making FOIP requests since it is not a public body and is instead a private entity.
I hope this propaganda centre is more than just a bunch of junior social media dweebs getting mad at / debating people on Reddit and Twitter.

I'm also hoping the UCP consider going to bat in this province for non-O+G industries too, they're kinda being treated like Edmonton Oiler-style 'second tier' citizens right now IMO. There's hundreds and thousands of people in other industries that also matter. I hope they get a 'Canadian Energy Centre' too.
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:35 PM   #1631
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Why would they remove the outliers for salary at the bottom (less than $60,000) but not remove the top?

Why wouldn't they use median instead of average. I suspect it's because it doesn't support their desired outcome as much.

The median salary for a doctor in Alberta is $350,000. That's before they pay fees which are generally near or over 6 figures.

So if the typical doctor bills $350,000, then loses $100,000 off the top, they are then taxed on $250,000 that leaves them with what? About $160,000.


Is that too high? Maybe,but it's a far cry from $450,000.

The metrics are the same for all provinces though.



Doctors in every province pay fees and expenses so that's not a great argument against this article. Are they higher in Alberta? Doubt it.



Doctors in Alberta pay less tax than any other province. So that's a really bad argument.



Why is the median a better way to analyze pay across the country? I can't find a single article that analyzes median wage in health care comparables. I don't know what the median is in Ontario but I suspect it is much lower given the number of doctors they have.


And excluding the lower end of doctors wages, below 60k is another metric that is equal in all provinces. They're not just looking at rich Alberta docs.



But whatever. If all those number makes sense to you that's cool. We're not a booming economy any more so it seems out of place to me. And our outcomes suck compared to other provinces which is the most annoying part of the whole thing.
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:39 PM   #1632
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I hope this propaganda centre is more than just a bunch of junior social media dweebs getting mad at / debating people on Reddit and Twitter.

I'm also hoping the UCP consider going to bat in this province for non-O+G industries too, they're kinda being treated like Edmonton Oiler-style 'second tier' citizens right now IMO. There's hundreds and thousands of people in other industries that also matter. I hope they get a 'Canadian Energy Centre' too.
It is concerning to me that they set this up as a private business. This means less accountability to the public, more scrupulous attacks on people they disagree with, and opens the door for shadowy business dealings and use of public subsidization.

If they had nothing to hide they wouldn't go this route. But I guess the Office of Red Tape Reduction will spin this as providing private sector jobs and putting Calgarians back to work. Awaiting the ribbon-cutting tweet pronouncing it as such.
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:56 PM   #1633
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The metrics are the same for all provinces though.



Doctors in every province pay fees and expenses so that's not a great argument against this article. Are they higher in Alberta? Doubt it.



Doctors in Alberta pay less tax than any other province. So that's a really bad argument.



Why is the median a better way to analyze pay across the country? I can't find a single article that analyzes median wage in health care comparables. I don't know what the median is in Ontario but I suspect it is much lower given the number of doctors they have.


And excluding the lower end of doctors wages, below 60k is another metric that is equal in all provinces. They're not just looking at rich Alberta docs.



But whatever. If all those number makes sense to you that's cool. We're not a booming economy any more so it seems out of place to me. And our outcomes suck compared to other provinces which is the most annoying part of the whole thing.

Use median instead of removing the bottom making less than 60k. Why make arbitrary adjustments because you feel like it. Are there more doctors that are on the extreme high end in Alberta? That would have an impact on average. Remove that bias.

It doesn't matter if it's the same metric as other provinces. They need to take a lot of things into account.

What is the typical salary overall in the province they are comparing? A doctor earning $200,000/yr in Nova Scotia isn't they same as a doctor earning $200,000/yr in Alberta. You need to attract doctors and if the cost of living is higher in one province you'll need to provide incentive to come here.

For example why would a doctor choose Alberta over Nova Scotia if the pay is the same? They would be way further ahead living in Nova Scotia. You also have to factor in desirability. Outside of Calgary, Alberta doesn't have many desirable places to live.

You need to look no further than northern Alberta to find a history of sub par healthcare because they can't attract better candidates.

They need to account for other variables when doing a comparison like this. Someone making 80k/yr at an office job in Calgary might be considered overpaid but in Toronto they are barely getting by.

For the record I'm not saying doctors aren't overpaid here I'm saying this is a weak analysis.
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Old 10-10-2019, 03:23 PM   #1634
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Use median instead of removing the bottom making less than 60k. Why make arbitrary adjustments because you feel like it. Are there more doctors that are on the extreme high end in Alberta? That would have an impact on average. Remove that bias

I assume the less than 60k doc is an outlier in all provinces. But you're purely speculating that it makes the average higher in Alberta than in all other provinces for some reason. If you think we have more docs earning 60k than all the other provinces then I guess you could cry foul. But I don't think that makes any sense at all. It's not a bias when it applies to all.


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What is the typical salary overall in the province they are comparing? A doctor earning $200,000/yr in Nova Scotia isn't they same as a doctor earning $200,000/yr in Alberta. You need to attract doctors and if the cost of living is higher in one province you'll need to provide incentive to come here.

For example why would a doctor choose Alberta over Nova Scotia if the pay is the same? They would be way further ahead living in Nova Scotia. You also have to factor in desirability. Outside of Calgary, Alberta doesn't have many desirable places to live.

Yeah. That's why Nova Scotia isn't part of the study. The four biggest provinces are included. You can argue that the cost of living in Ontario and BC is actually much higher than Alberta. And of course all provinces have a similar amount of rural and hard to access areas that need more expensive health care. Northern AB is not much different than BC and Ontario and Quebec. It is however much much more expensive to live in Toronto and Vancouver and Montreal than in Calgary and Edmonton. And desirability is completely subjective. No one is going to factor that into any reasonable study. You're missing the most important factor which is tax. And those are much much higher in other provinces.


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You need to look no further than northern Alberta to find a history of sub par healthcare because they can't attract better candidates.

Cause northern Ontario and northern BC is awesome? Just kidding. But Alberta does attract more doctors than other provinces so that's not really a factor.


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They need to account for other variables when doing a comparison like this. Someone making 80k/yr at an office job in Calgary might be considered overpaid but in Toronto they are barely getting by.

Hey that's my argument! But you can't account for all the factors you're talking about. I'm sure I'm missing something but those factors you mention are not it. If docs are paid differently in Alberta than in the other provinces then maybe that's a start. But so far the comparisons look pretty legit to me. We pay a lot and get less. And its been that way for a long time.
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Old 10-10-2019, 03:30 PM   #1635
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I assume the less than 60k doc is an outlier in all provinces.
Actually it's quite common, as residents are considered doctors (they have their MDs), and can make under 60k for a good chunk of their residency programs. And mostly all medical specializations require residency programs. Pay can vary province to province for residents.

It's only when they have completed residency (and possibly fellowships for some) and have been offered positions in hospitals or clinics do you see the numbers being discussed. And it definitely varies from specialization to specialization. For example, GP's tend to make less than anesthesiologists.
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:13 PM   #1636
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What is the significance of the firing of the Real Estate Council? What work do they complete?

https://globalnews.ca/news/6012951/a...gulator-board/

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The Alberta government is moving to fire the entire board that regulates the provincial real-estate industry on the grounds it is hopelessly dysfunctional and wracked by infighting.

Service Alberta Minister Nate Glubish has tabled legislation that will allow the province to dismiss the board and appoint an interim administrator until a new board is in place.

Glubish says the problems plaguing the Real Estate Council of Alberta have gone on too long and critical work is not being addressed.
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:35 PM   #1637
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I hope this propaganda centre is more than just a bunch of junior social media dweebs getting mad at / debating people on Reddit and Twitter.

I'm also hoping the UCP consider going to bat in this province for non-O+G industries too, they're kinda being treated like Edmonton Oiler-style 'second tier' citizens right now IMO. There's hundreds and thousands of people in other industries that also matter. I hope they get a 'Canadian Energy Centre' too.
Yeah, what about ME?

Energy Exports are the primary source of income for this province, if the O&G industry flourishes, all of the secondary industries also see an uptick.

Service companies, aviation, hospitality, even retail, all suffer when our primary industry is artificially suppressed. The UCP propaganda center is about 5 years late, an irreparable amount of anti-oil propaganda has already been allowed to disseminate.
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:46 PM   #1638
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Yeah, what about ME?

Energy Exports are the primary source of income for this province, if the O&G industry flourishes, all of the secondary industries also see an uptick.

Service companies, aviation, hospitality, even retail, all suffer when our primary industry is artificially suppressed. The UCP propaganda center is about 5 years late, an irreparable amount of anti-oil propaganda has already been allowed to disseminate.
So, how about the O+G industry takes care of their own PR, like...every other company in every other industry has to do? O+G firms have deep pockets. This government propaganda centre is just an expensive mouthpiece for big corporations, and I just don't think 'defending' the industry's image online will get us any closer to pipelines being built.

Just so you know, there's other industries, with hundreds of millions in revenue and thousands of jobs at stake that are non O+G as well, such as tech and film. These two industries, specifically, have enormous potential to grow even bigger in this province. What's the UCP doing to incubate these industries? Virtually nothing. How can we move our province forward if we just keep doubling down and praying to the skies for 2007 again?
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:47 PM   #1639
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Yeah, what about ME?

Energy Exports are the primary source of income for this province, if the O&G industry flourishes, all of the secondary industries also see an uptick.

Service companies, aviation, hospitality, even retail, all suffer when our primary industry is artificially suppressed. The UCP propaganda center is about 5 years late, an irreparable amount of anti-oil propaganda has already been allowed to disseminate.
A lot of tech companies were doing just fine on their own and with the $100 million AI investment fund and the Alberta Investor Tax Credit (until both were put in limbo by the UCP). Companies like Jobber, Yardly, Medo.ai, Coparenter could benefit from the support they receive. Why don't they get an "Alberta Tech Centre" too?
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:55 PM   #1640
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So, how about the O+G industry takes care of their own PR, like...every other company in every other industry has to do? O+G firms have deep pockets. This government propaganda centre is just an expensive mouthpiece for big corporations, and I just don't think 'defending' the industry's image online will get us any closer to pipelines being built.

Just so you know, there's other industries, with hundreds of millions in revenue and thousands of jobs at stake that are non O+G as well, such as tech and film. These two industries, specifically, have enormous potential to grow even bigger in this province. What's the UCP doing to incubate these industries? Virtually nothing. How can we move our province forward if we just keep doubling down and praying to the skies for 2007 again?
Does film and tech generate huge royalties for the province?

While those might be great industries (I have my doubts about film) there is huge money for the province in both royalties and taxes when it comes to O&G.
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