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Old 07-05-2019, 12:19 AM   #1041
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Originally Posted by iggy_oi View Post
Basically we’re left with a few possible scenarios:

1.The NDP had the carbon tax planned all along and the timing of the announcement being shortly after the liberals announced their intention to impose a carbon tax on provinces that don’t implement their own first was a complete coincidence.

2. After the federal government announced their plans for a carbon tax the NDP implemented their own carbon tax as part of their climate change strategy in the hopes of appeasing the liberals enough to support pipelines.

3. After consulting with various groups a carbon tax was determined to be the best option and their decision had nothing to do with what was announced from Ottawa.

I’m of the opinion that scenario number 2 is most likely what occurred or the closest to it of the 3. Whether or not it actually helped appease the liberals is a whole other can of worms.

My OP was just a comment on the assertion that not mentioning it during their campaign was a lie. While I agree that optically it would have been better to have included it in their platform, I just don’t think there is very strong evidence to support the claim that prior to being elected the NDP were certain they were going to actually implement a carbon tax.

I think that comparing the NDP’s carbon tax “lie” to the actual lies Kenney has said like telling us our fiscal situation was worse than what was reported when it actually wasn’t is a pretty big stretch considering one lie is labeled as such based on facts and the other is based on speculation. It just comes off as partisan whataboutism. I also find it interesting that of the dozens of posters on this board who were critical of the NDP throughout the last election campaign for what they labeled as over exaggerations or “fear mongering” tactics, none have voiced any concerns over Kenney making actual false claims for the purpose of political grandstanding. Just seems a little inconsistent.
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Old 07-05-2019, 12:26 AM   #1042
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I have to say, conservatives are good. Kenney is what, 1 month in? 2 months? And has been caught lying pretty blatantly 2 times now. Him and his shady kamikaze campaign continue to be under investigation by the RCMP. But here we are with a "hillarys emails1!1!!!1" scenario and litigating the logistics of the carbon tax.

#### I hate politics.
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Old 07-05-2019, 12:30 AM   #1043
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Can one of you guys explain what he lied about? I haven’t been able to read that exactly from anywhere for reasons I’m sure.
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Old 07-05-2019, 01:04 AM   #1044
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Can one of you guys explain what he lied about? I haven’t been able to read that exactly from anywhere for reasons I’m sure.
Paraphrasing:

After the ear plug incident during the filibuster over changes to the labour code Kenney’s office released an official statement saying it was just a lighthearted joke, which the house speaker confirmed. The following day Kenney denied that and instead claimed he was merely providing ear plugs to an MLA who was suffering from tinnitus(which ear plugs won’t really help with).

A few weeks ago Kenney came out and said the NDP had “fudged the numbers” on their last budget update and that the current deficit would be much higher than the NDP were leading Albertans to believe. After reviewing the books Kenney’s analysts then came out and admitted the current deficit was actually about $2billion less than what the NDP had forecast.

How anyone living in Alberta who follows politics could have missed either of those stories is beyond me. Maybe your head is firmly planted in the sand for...reasons?

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Lawl
It’s kind of funny that you would respond to a post with “lawl” and then claim/admit in your subsequent post that you don’t actually have any knowledge of the subject matter which is being discussed. Ignorance is bliss?
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Old 07-05-2019, 01:09 AM   #1045
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Paraphrasing:

After the ear plug incident during the filibuster over changes to the labour code Kenney’s office released an official statement saying it was just a lighthearted joke, which the house speaker confirmed. The following day Kenney denied that and instead claimed he was merely providing ear plugs to an MLA who was suffering from tinnitus(which ear plugs won’t really help with).

A few weeks ago Kenney came out and said the NDP had “fudged the numbers” on their last budget update and that the current deficit would be much higher than the NDP were leading Albertans to believe. After reviewing the books Kenney’s analysts then came out and admitted the current deficit was actually about $2billion less than what the NDP had forecast.

How anyone living in Alberta who follows politics could have missed either of those stories is beyond me. Maybe your head is firmly planted in the sand for...reasons?



It’s kind of funny that you would respond to a post with “lawl” and then claim/admit in your subsequent post that you don’t actually have any knowledge of the subject matter which is being discussed. Ignorance is bliss?
Maybe the first is a lie.. maybe (more like a bad excuse for an idiotic gesture), but the 2nd isnt a lie. It was a bad assumption, which you even said in your reply - after reviewing the books- he corrected his statement.

Is this what we've sunk too (both sides). Worrying about Fn earplugs?

No wonder this province and country can't get our head out of our rears
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Old 07-05-2019, 01:17 AM   #1046
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Originally Posted by Weitz View Post
Can one of you guys explain what he lied about? I haven’t been able to read that exactly from anywhere for reasons I’m sure.
Um....

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Originally Posted by Weitz View Post
Is there a link to him changing the story?
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Originally Posted by Weitz View Post
Is there a link for this story?
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Originally Posted by MarchHare View Post
Lawl?

You and pepsifree even had a long back and fourth about your initial concerns that it was potentially fake news and you’re claiming you aren’t aware of the story.

Jason Kenney is that you?
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Old 07-05-2019, 01:41 AM   #1047
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Maybe the first is a lie.. maybe (more like a bad excuse for an idiotic gesture),
They were both poor excuses. In any event either Kenney was lying or his spokesperson and the house leader were. If what Kenney said were true they would have had no reason to lie, and if they were going to lie you’d think they would have come up with something a little better than what they did.

Quote:
but the 2nd isnt a lie. It was a bad assumption, which you even said in your reply - after reviewing the books- he corrected his statement.
He didn’t say he thought the numbers were wrong, he outright said they were wrong and that the NDP were lying about it. With no evidence to back up his claim. Are you suggesting that saying something that isn’t true shouldn’t be considered a lie anymore?

Quote:
Is this what we've sunk too (both sides). Worrying about Fn earplugs?
Who’s worried about the earplugs? One side? Both sides? Many sides? We’re discussing the fact that the premiere is lying to his constituents. That should matter regardless of who you voted for.

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No wonder this province and country can't get our head out of our rears
I think your post sums up the explanation for that quite nicely.
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Old 07-05-2019, 01:58 AM   #1048
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Maybe the first is a lie.. maybe (more like a bad excuse for an idiotic gesture), but the 2nd isnt a lie. It was a bad assumption, which you even said in your reply - after reviewing the books- he corrected his statement.
I think Iggy_Oi's simplification of the story and your interpretation of that doesn't do it justice because Kenney never corrected his statement. And Kenney's statement wasn't some small government bickering. He accused the NDP of altering financial numbers, which should be considered a huge accusation.

They then quietly released the year-end financial documents, prior to the long weekend buried deep in a financial document issued the same day as nine other government releases, which showed that Kenney's fear-rhetoric about the NDP altering the revenue numbers was apparently completely wrong. But they refuse to address that.

Quote:
Given what the premier said in April and then again in June about the NDP cooking the books, Mount Royal University political scientist Duane Bratt says he sees only two possibilities.

"He either didn't know — and then doubles down, even though he could have realized those numbers — or he did know the answer and is basically bull####ting Albertans," Bratt said.

"I'm not sure what's the worst answer there."
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...illion-deficit
Quote:
“From what I’ve seen, the NDP massively overstated revenues. They were dishonest with Albertans and they fudged the numbers,” Kenney is quoted as saying in a Postmedia column on June 7. “They lied to Albertans about the economy and the revenues.”
...
Total revenue for the year was higher than expected, calculated at $49.6 billion. The $1.7-billion boost compared to Budget 2018 was mainly attributed to resource revenue, said the annual report.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...lips-1.5197512
Quote:
CBC News asked Myatt for clarification on which projections, specifically, Kenney was referring to, if it wasn't the year-end financials, and if Kenney believed the Bell columns accurately represented what he had said.

She replied with an emailed statement that didn't answer those questions.

"Over the NDP's term, there was zero growth to Alberta's revenues, but they managed to grow expenses by $8 billion," Myatt wrote in response.
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...erein-column-8
Quote:
And though a $6.7-billion deficit is hardly reason to celebrate, the financial statements appeared largely consistent with those we’d seen throughout the NDP’s term as well as those of past Progressive Conservative governments.

There was no indication of how things might have been “fudged,” and the government did not hold a technical briefing with Alberta Finance officials to answer questions, as has been the custom.
...
As for Kenney, he was offered the chance to explain himself during question period both Tuesday and Wednesday, and also avoided any elaboration.
So more or less:
Kenney, pre-election: NDP's financial situation is far worse than they are letting on.
Kenney, post-election: After being able to review the financial documents the NDP has fudged the revenues and we have a billion more deficit because of their lies.
Financial documents prepared by the government and reviewed by auditor general: Revenues we're actually better than expected.
Kenney government, post-document release: You misinterpret Kenney's words. NDP bad. (failing to acknowledge what specifically the NDP fudged).

It's very Trump like really. I'm surprised they didn't start with "BUT HER EMAILS".

But you can't really blame him either. He can say what he wants, knows that he won't be accountable by nearly all of his base at this point even if he is caught. He just straight up and hilariously lied about the earplugs and you still have his supporters trying to shame those who bring it up. So why not go for it? If this had been quietly swept under the rug as planned with the pre-long weekend release he gets off brilliantly and apparently even if caught, oh well, after all NDP bad.

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Old 07-05-2019, 03:29 AM   #1049
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Old 07-05-2019, 03:39 AM   #1050
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I have to say, conservatives are good. Kenney is what, 1 month in? 2 months? And has been caught lying pretty blatantly 2 times now. Him and his shady kamikaze campaign continue to be under investigation by the RCMP. But here we are with a "hillarys emails1!1!!!1" scenario and litigating the logistics of the carbon tax.

#### I hate politics.
When I said people claimed Notley did a good job I was referring to you. It's simply not true. The evidence is plentiful.

Here then. Kenney is a scumbag and I wish the UCP had someone else in there. He's a liar. A career politician.

Now. Will you acknowledge anything negative the NDP did during their trainwreck single term, or just dig in and back your squad?

Earplug-gate is imo, not dissimilar to:

"Take the bus or walk" - Notley

"Sewer rats" - Hoffman

"Move to BC" - McCuaig-Boyd

"A few thousand extra/month, maybe you should look at your business plan" - Bilous

"Earlier today, I misspoke in a media interview regarding the work of the RCMP" - Phillips lying

The mud isn't just flying in one direction dude.
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Old 07-05-2019, 07:55 AM   #1051
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^Yes, but the NDP are no longer in office and the UCP are. It's still early in the administration so I'm willing to grant the UCP the same leeway I did with the NDP when they first assumed office. Rookie mistakes happen even with seasoned (or career) politicians.

Hopefully, the UCP supporters/NDP haters will soon stop with the NDP whataboutisms and focus on what the positives and negatives of what the UCP are actually doing. In this regard, I have to give Dion his due. I thought he was a blatant UCP partisan but he has been just as critical of the current government as the previous government. The same can not be said for many others here who still seem to be primarily focused on the NDP and give the UCP a pass. At some point, the focus has to shift to the current government otherwise it comes off like Trudeau blaming Harper for everything.
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Old 07-05-2019, 08:22 AM   #1052
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^Yes, but the NDP are no longer in office and the UCP are. It's still early in the administration so I'm willing to grant the UCP the same leeway I did with the NDP when they first assumed office. Rookie mistakes happen even with seasoned (or career) politicians.

Hopefully, the UCP supporters/NDP haters will soon stop with the NDP whataboutisms and focus on what the positives and negatives of what the UCP are actually doing. In this regard, I have to give Dion his due. I thought he was a blatant UCP partisan but he has been just as critical of the current government as the previous government. The same can not be said for many others here who still seem to be primarily focused on the NDP and give the UCP a pass. At some point, the focus has to shift to the current government otherwise it comes off like Trudeau blaming Harper for everything.
Can’t we just hate them all 😏
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:33 AM   #1053
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Not only did he not take a pay cut, but he has a bloated cabinet to boot, so MLA costs are even higher.



But at least they didn't waste any time cutting minimum wage for minors. Need to set an example during these tough times.
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:51 AM   #1054
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The same can not be said for many others here who still seem to be primarily focused on the NDP and give the UCP a pass. At some point, the focus has to shift to the current government otherwise it comes off like Trudeau blaming Harper for everything.
When they don't respond or go MIA it's a de facto admission of acknowledgement that the UCP is doing ass clown things just like we all expected
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:55 AM   #1055
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Not only did he not take a pay cut, but he has a bloated cabinet to boot, so MLA costs are even higher.

But at least they didn't waste any time cutting minimum wage for minors. Need to set an example during these tough times.
Another Trudeau-esque "Do as I say and not as I do" stooge.

What a joke Kenney is. Can't believe people defend him.
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Old 07-05-2019, 03:35 PM   #1056
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Old 07-05-2019, 10:22 PM   #1057
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Another Trudeau-esque "Do as I say and not as I do" stooge.

What a joke Kenney is. Can't believe people defend him.
He's a used car salesman. Says one thing to the electorate and does another after Albertans bought his bill of goods

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Old 07-06-2019, 12:08 PM   #1058
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He's a used car salesman. Says one thing to the electorate and does another after Albertans UCP voters bought his bill of goods
Not every Albertan bought what he was trying to sell us.
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Old 07-06-2019, 12:37 PM   #1059
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Can’t we just hate them all 😏
Yes, that's what I do
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Old 07-06-2019, 06:07 PM   #1060
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Not every Albertan bought what he was trying to sell us.
You must live in Edmonton
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