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Old 07-04-2019, 10:01 AM   #1021
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Duh. Election rhetoric. I wish we could see this objectively.
Sorry, what do you mean? Although during the election Kenney said that the fiscal situation was worse than the NDP acknowledged it was well after the election that Kenney outright said they had lied, altered numbers and hid an additional billion dollars. Then three weeks later it turns out that wasn't near the case at all. Now it's being spun that he meant future projection?
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:04 AM   #1022
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I mean he's a liar, and he said inflammatory things to get elected, and just like the earplugs thing, he'll lie about it afterward, but there will be the UCP defenders coming out to say it's not so bad.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:05 AM   #1023
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I think what he meant was all politicians are lying liars from liartown.

All of them. Since the beginning of time.

So it's no shock that rhetoric (on any side) has been tailor made to fit narratives and party agendas, and if it's wrong in the eye of the public it gets spun.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:10 AM   #1024
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Yeah, but why not hold him accountable? Why is the reaction to say - Lying lairs from lying town? What's he going to lie about next?
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:27 AM   #1025
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Yeah, but why not hold him accountable? Why is the reaction to say - Lying lairs from lying town? What's he going to lie about next?
That's fair. From the other side, it's why the NDP got pummeled as well.

Just buckle up for 4 years and hope they don't do too much damage I guess?
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:28 AM   #1026
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Just buckle up for 40 years and hope they don't do too much damage I guess?
Fixed...
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:15 AM   #1027
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Yeah, but why not hold him accountable? Why is the reaction to say - Lying lairs from lying town? What's he going to lie about next?
Am I mis-reading what you originally said?

I'm also not defending him. Guy is a dbag IMO.
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:42 AM   #1028
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That's fair. From the other side, it's why the NDP got pummeled as well.
The NDP were caught lying multiple times within their first couple of months in office? That’s news to a lot of us.

Kenney has blatantly lied to Albertans on more than one occasion so far, worse yet during the campaign he even used his inaccurate assessment of our current fiscal situation to justify why his government could only afford to offer tax cuts to business owners. Hopefully as time goes on more Albertans start to see Kenney and the UCP for who they really are: Full of promises but only willing to actually guarantee direct benefits to those who are already better off than the majority of the province.
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:49 PM   #1029
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The NDP were caught lying multiple times within their first couple of months in office? That’s news to a lot of us.

Kenney has blatantly lied to Albertans on more than one occasion so far, worse yet during the campaign he even used his inaccurate assessment of our current fiscal situation to justify why his government could only afford to offer tax cuts to business owners. Hopefully as time goes on more Albertans start to see Kenney and the UCP for who they really are: Full of promises but only willing to actually guarantee direct benefits to those who are already better off than the majority of the province.
Kenney has actually been even worse than I thought when he was likely to be elected a year ago.

I thought Kenney would be a boring, hard working politician who pushed agendas I loathed but would be a quiet workhorse getting his vision in place. He's actually becoming some what Trumpian in his ridiculous and totally unnecessary lying to boot.
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:55 PM   #1030
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Kenney has actually been even worse than I thought when he was likely to be elected a year ago.

I thought Kenney would be a boring, hard working politician who pushed agendas I loathed but would be a quiet workhorse getting his vision in place. He's actually becoming some what Trumpian in his ridiculous and totally unnecessary lying to boot.
Heh, pick your pejorative for the Alberta carbon tax, it wasn't in the NDP's platform anywhere.
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Old 07-04-2019, 04:00 PM   #1031
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Special prosecutor from Ontario appointed to UCP leadership investigation

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...-investigation

The Alberta Crown Prosecution Service (ACPS) has confirmed a special prosecutor from Ontario has been appointed to the police investigation into the United Conservative Party’s leadership race, won by Premier Jason Kenney.
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Old 07-04-2019, 04:02 PM   #1032
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Special prosecutor from Ontario appointed to UCP leadership investigation

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...-investigation

The Alberta Crown Prosecution Service (ACPS) has confirmed a special prosecutor from Ontario has been appointed to the police investigation into the United Conservative Party’s leadership race, won by Premier Jason Kenney
something..something.. ndp.. something..something.. NOTLEY LOVES TRUDEAU

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Old 07-04-2019, 04:05 PM   #1033
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Iggy...

"but only willing to actually guarantee direct benefits to those who are already better off than the majority of the province. "
But I thought Kenney was anti-union...
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Old 07-04-2019, 04:07 PM   #1034
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something..something.. ndp.. something..something.. NOTLEY LOVES TRUDEAU

Kenney bad = orange man bad.
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Old 07-04-2019, 04:49 PM   #1035
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Heh, pick your pejorative for the Alberta carbon tax, it wasn't in the NDP's platform anywhere.
Did the NDP claim that it was?
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Old 07-04-2019, 07:15 PM   #1036
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Confused yet?

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Regardless, the whole episode serves as another example of how financial information, which, in theory, should be straightforward and apolitical, is becoming increasingly politicized — twisted, manipulated and spun in different directions to fit a specific narrative.

Consider also the dispute over the NDP’s crude-by-rail plan, which the former government claims was on course to fetch $2.2-billion in provincial profit, and the new government says could lose up to $1.5 billion.

The wide disparity is explained, in part, by the fact that NDP calculations included not just profits or losses from the rail leases themselves, but also counted spinoff effects from moving more oil that would result in higher royalties, taxes and other revenue.

The UCP’s position is that the deal should be judged only the performance of the leases, since positive economic effects are likely to happen regardless.

Who’s right? What’s appropriate to include in the deal’s prognosis and what isn’t? There’s no easy answers that aren’t partisan.
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Another example was found in the UCP’s news release on the 2018-19 results, which featured a quote from Toews stating that Alberta’s debt had skyrocketed to more than $80 billion under the NDP.

That immediately raised eyebrows because debt figures used up to that point were under $60 billion.

A deeper look revealed that UCP had included debt held by arm’s-length financing agencies such as the Alberta Capital Finance Authority, which loans money to municipalities at low interest rates.

In my experience, that’s a departure from how government debt has been commonly understood and reported.

It seems in this case, unlike the rail deal, the UCP was willing to lump in additional factors to a financial calculation.

Similarly, projections of revenue losses from the UCP’s corporate tax cut are another black hole of confusion and inconsistency.

While the NDP says the tax cut will drop provincial income by $4.5 billion over four years, UCP estimates suggest the shortfall will be considerably less because the tax cut will eventually generate economic effects that will bring new revenue to the treasury.
https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...7-3f5877c79a4e
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Old 07-04-2019, 07:44 PM   #1037
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Did the NDP claim that it was?
The carbon tax as a specific mechanism was not included in the NDP’s platform leading up to the 2015 election. But the party did campaign on an environmental strategy and a promise to do something to address climate change.

Before she was elected, Rachel Notley said the NDP would work with industry members and experts to establish energy and environmental standards


https://globalnews.ca/news/4928688/a...dp-carbon-tax/
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Old 07-04-2019, 08:16 PM   #1038
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The carbon tax as a specific mechanism was not included in the NDP’s platform leading up to the 2015 election. But the party did campaign on an environmental strategy and a promise to do something to address climate change.



Before she was elected, Rachel Notley said the NDP would work with industry members and experts to establish energy and environmental standards




https://globalnews.ca/news/4928688/a...dp-carbon-tax/
Then they dumped the collected tax into general revenue and created the infamous lightbulb racket, with the contract going to an Ontario company.

All politicians lie. Tron's point is totally fair. The problem with NDP supporters is they just can't bring themselves to have even a shred of objectivity. They still think Notley did a good job.

The NDP lied about the PPA deal as well, as they lost the lawsuit with Enmax. Even Nenshi has said as much.

There's a thousand reasons the NDP aren't governing anymore, many of them due to attempts at strong arming industries.
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:32 PM   #1039
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The carbon tax as a specific mechanism was not included in the NDP’s platform leading up to the 2015 election. But the party did campaign on an environmental strategy and a promise to do something to address climate change.

Before she was elected, Rachel Notley said the NDP would work with industry members and experts to establish energy and environmental standards


https://globalnews.ca/news/4928688/a...dp-carbon-tax/
Basically we’re left with a few possible scenarios:

1.The NDP had the carbon tax planned all along and the timing of the announcement being shortly after the liberals announced their intention to impose a carbon tax on provinces that don’t implement their own first was a complete coincidence.

2. After the federal government announced their plans for a carbon tax the NDP implemented their own carbon tax as part of their climate change strategy in the hopes of appeasing the liberals enough to support pipelines.

3. After consulting with various groups a carbon tax was determined to be the best option and their decision had nothing to do with what was announced from Ottawa.

I’m of the opinion that scenario number 2 is most likely what occurred or the closest to it of the 3. Whether or not it actually helped appease the liberals is a whole other can of worms.

My OP was just a comment on the assertion that not mentioning it during their campaign was a lie. While I agree that optically it would have been better to have included it in their platform, I just don’t think there is very strong evidence to support the claim that prior to being elected the NDP were certain they were going to actually implement a carbon tax.

I think that comparing the NDP’s carbon tax “lie” to the actual lies Kenney has said like telling us our fiscal situation was worse than what was reported when it actually wasn’t is a pretty big stretch considering one lie is labeled as such based on facts and the other is based on speculation. It just comes off as partisan whataboutism. I also find it interesting that of the dozens of posters on this board who were critical of the NDP throughout the last election campaign for what they labeled as over exaggerations or “fear mongering” tactics, none have voiced any concerns over Kenney making actual false claims for the purpose of political grandstanding. Just seems a little inconsistent.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:21 PM   #1040
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I think that comparing the NDP’s carbon tax “lie” to the actual lies Kenney has said like telling us our fiscal situation was worse than what was reported when it actually wasn’t is a pretty big stretch considering one lie is labeled as such based on facts and the other is based on speculation. It just comes off as partisan whataboutism. I also find it interesting that of the dozens of posters on this board who were critical of the NDP throughout the last election campaign for what they labeled as over exaggerations or “fear mongering” tactics, none have voiced any concerns over Kenney making actual false claims for the purpose of political grandstanding. Just seems a little inconsistent.
Politicians will say or do anything to curry favour from the population and this time Kenney was caught with his hands in the cookie jar. I don't expect he'll apologise but instead try to twist the facts more making him look worse
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