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Old 08-25-2020, 10:56 PM   #1
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Interesting article:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/did-a-ch...pany-1.1459269
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Old 08-25-2020, 10:56 PM   #2
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https://nationalpost.com/news/exclus...telecom-giants
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Old 08-25-2020, 10:58 PM   #3
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Inside the Chinese military attack on Nortel:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/i...ack-on-nortel/
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Old 08-25-2020, 11:02 PM   #4
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No. Probably not.
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:39 AM   #5
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I wouldn't doubt that China stole key info from Nortel given their longstanding reputation for relentless IP theft in all industries, but how does a major tech company like Nortel allow something like this to happen so easily? That's somewhat embarrassing
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Old 08-26-2020, 06:35 AM   #6
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I wouldn't doubt that China stole key info from Nortel given their longstanding reputation for relentless IP theft in all industries, but how does a major tech company like Nortel allow something like this to happen so easily? That's somewhat embarrassing
That's what I was thinking. You would think that extremely important documents would be buried deeper than just stealing passwords from the Chief Executive Officer. That's like a bank leaving the key to it's safe in the desk of the manager.
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Old 08-26-2020, 07:50 AM   #7
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That's what I was thinking. You would think that extremely important documents would be buried deeper than just stealing passwords from the Chief Executive Officer. That's like a bank leaving the key to it's safe in the desk of the manager.
Cyber Security in Canada wasn't really well thought of and funded until years later. Even today many IT firms struggle to get funds to implement simple technology like MFA, that would have stopped this cold. Back then it would have been more expensive, but very doable with a RFA Token device.

Probably the execs didn't see the issue, nor wanted the bother of having to use the token. Big mistake, but again the mentality was it couldn't really happen.

Nortel getting hacked by China is very old story in IT circles, and it absolutely did happen. They stole the IP, then built it, and was even able to see how Nortel was bidding on jobs, and they under cut them. They even exist today as Hauwei that contains or built on that stolen IP, and they sell it back to us, with probable back doors to steal more Intel. Hilarious!

I sat in a meeting room in Calgary in 2011 and was told any Chinese national or company was not allowed access to the company network under any circumstance. They brought up Nortel as an example of why. Basically said "If you give them a basic login, their gov't will steal everything of ours"

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Old 08-26-2020, 08:38 AM   #8
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What China (and by extension Huawei) did to Nortel is nothing but a state supported broad frontal cyber attack. It destroyed Nortel, enabled the creation of the 5G behemoth Huawei and allowed China to start infiltrating the networks of many other countries.

It is sad what happened to Nortel, without any recognition or any retaliation from Canada.

Just on this basis I support the extradition of Meng to the US.
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Old 08-26-2020, 08:54 AM   #9
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It is sad what happened to Nortel, without any recognition or any retaliation from Canada.
With the China practicing hostage diplomacy Canada has to move carefully. Their gov't only understands strength. He who has the most wins.

That said, we have effectively banned Huawei in 5G. I too would like and official announcement, but that just puts 2 innocent people at risk, and maybe more.
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Old 08-26-2020, 09:34 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by OldDutch View Post
Cyber Security in Canada wasn't really well thought of and funded until years later. Even today many IT firms struggle to get funds to implement simple technology like MFA, that would have stopped this cold. Back then it would have been more expensive, but very doable with a RFA Token device.

Probably the execs didn't see the issue, nor wanted the bother of having to use the token. Big mistake, but again the mentality was it couldn't really happen.

Nortel getting hacked by China is very old story in IT circles, and it absolutely did happen. They stole the IP, then built it, and was even able to see how Nortel was bidding on jobs, and they under cut them. They even exist today as Hauwei that contains or built on that stolen IP, and they sell it back to us, with probable back doors to steal more Intel. Hilarious!

I sat in a meeting room in Calgary in 2011 and was told any Chinese national or company was not allowed access to the company network under any circumstance. They brought up Nortel as an example of why. Basically said "If you give them a basic login, their gov't will steal everything of ours"
Damn, that's a harshly discriminatory position to take with regard to Chinese nationals. Not shocking that it happens, even in 2011 and still no doubt happening today, but harsh.

Canada has many Chinese nationals who live in Canada full time yet retain their Chinese citizenship. They just live in Canada for the rest of their lives as permanent residents because China doesn't allow dual citizenship and they don't want to risk losing rights to interests they have back in China. They're legal permanent residents of Canada and part of Canadian society though, not people to fear or distrust.
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Old 08-26-2020, 09:49 AM   #11
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I like how we blame the government for private enterprise failure. Uh, capitalism anyone? I mean, we all know it’s a sham but still.

Maybe, just maybe, if Telecoms did what was best instead of cheapest we wouldn’t have this problem. Short sighted idiots. They’ll happily sell our sovereignty and give up all freedoms for that extra bump in share price. Knowing full well doing so essentially cripples them and puts them at the mercy of Huawei. And why? Because they don’t give a #### if they’re buying tech from a nefarious organization who is literally trying to take over the world. They know if they fail, the government will prop them up.

#### the world. I hope the virus wins. We deserve it.
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Old 08-26-2020, 09:51 AM   #12
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Let's not pretend that governments aren't responsible for causing far more market failures than they are at fixing them.
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Old 08-26-2020, 09:52 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
I like how we blame the government for private enterprise failure. Uh, capitalism anyone? I mean, we all know it’s a sham but still.

Maybe, just maybe, if Telecoms did what was best instead of cheapest we wouldn’t have this problem. Short sighted idiots. They’ll happily sell our sovereignty and give up all freedoms for that extra bump in share price. Knowing full well doing so essentially cripples them and puts them at the mercy of Huawei. And why? Because they don’t give a #### if they’re buying tech from a nefarious organization who is literally trying to take over the world. They know if they fail, the government will prop them up.

#### the world. I hope the virus wins. We deserve it.
Bad day, Cecil?
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Old 08-26-2020, 09:57 AM   #14
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I have come to the stark realization that the world is doomed, I hate society and I frequently feel like I’m living in 1936 Austria. Like we all know what’s happening but it’s a lot of work to do anything about it and I’d rather just sneak by and leave all the worlds problems to the next guy. I’ve legit reached the point where discussions about the future, even with parents of young kids, is like “dude, don’t have kids, the world is ####ed. I love my kids but I fear for the world I’ve birthed them into. If I was single like you, I would never have kids.”

I want to go full on cabin in the woods off the grid and just shut myself off from society. It’s too much of a downer being stuck here. Civilization is an abject failure. I want to revoke my implied consent to the social contract.
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:02 AM   #15
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The reality is we live in the best times in all of history. Fewer wars, diseases, longer life, better medicine etc...The biggest difference is our access to news that promotes the doom and gloom. Try ignoring it? Ignorance is bliss?
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:02 AM   #16
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After the Canadian Foreign Minister met with his counterpart from China, he was told to pound sand over the two hostages, and the other Canadians facing death penalties in China.
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:09 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
I have come to the stark realization that the world is doomed, I hate society and I frequently feel like I’m living in 1936 Austria. Like we all know what’s happening but it’s a lot of work to do anything about it and I’d rather just sneak by and leave all the worlds problems to the next guy. I’ve legit reached the point where discussions about the future, even with parents of young kids, is like “dude, don’t have kids, the world is ####ed. I love my kids but I fear for the world I’ve birthed them into. If I was single like you, I would never have kids.”

I want to go full on cabin in the woods off the grid and just shut myself off from society. It’s too much of a downer being stuck here. Civilization is an abject failure. I want to revoke my implied consent to the social contract.
I was actually just thinking this morning about starting a thread asking people how optimistic they feel about the future.

I understand a lot of where you're coming from in a narrow, short to medium term sense, particularly from a Western perspective, but in a broader and more global and long-term sense I still feel pretty optimistic about the trends for the future of humanity.
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:12 AM   #18
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With the China practicing hostage diplomacy Canada has to move carefully. Their gov't only understands strength. He who has the most wins.

That said, we have effectively banned Huawei in 5G. I too would like and official announcement, but that just puts 2 innocent people at risk, and maybe more.
When you make comments like that, you make it clear that you don't understand their government.
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:28 AM   #19
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The reality is we live in the best times in all of history. Fewer wars, diseases, longer life, better medicine etc...The biggest difference is our access to news that promotes the doom and gloom. Try ignoring it? Ignorance is bliss?
Partially true. We basically live in Brave New World. We’ve traded war and disease for security but gave up a ton of freedom in the process. We’ve become the equivalent of a wild wolf who has slowly evolved into a domesticated dog. It’s way more comfortable but we’re at the whim of our masters.
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:41 AM   #20
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Partially true. We basically live in Brave New World. We’ve traded war and disease for security but gave up a ton of freedom in the process. We’ve become the equivalent of a wild wolf who has slowly evolved into a domesticated dog. It’s way more comfortable but we’re at the whim of our masters.
I'm not sure that serfs, slaves or the like would have agreed with you on that.
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