I don't plan on retiring for 25-30 years (I like what I do), but if I'm not ready to retire but health or external strife forces me, I hope euthanasia is more palatable to society by 2050. A plane ticket to Switzerland and a booking in a Sarco Pod should be easily affordable.
Right now I'm not really keen on fully retiring but slowly phasing into it, maybe working half time for a while and doing other things on the side like consulting and/or volunteering.
Since my last bleak post, still on that second major health crisis, but the difference since then is I've sold my home after having rented it out for about two years, and cleared all remaining debt I had (which was basically just student loans, which were bleeding me dry monthly). So I'm much more comfortable. And I realize I'm saying this from a place of privilege, but I'm currently able to live at a house my mom owns while I get back on my feet, which helps immensely with moving and planning ahead, long-term
Plus I now work two half days (more like 1/3 days) a week. But the way long-term disability works is anything I earn gets deducted from LTD until im no longer on LTD. It's a fun situation that instills one with the confidence to try and go back to work full time, possibly fail, but get cut off because you tried. But I digress..
Ive kinda waxed on about this with a psychologist I see: it's interesting that nobody really talks about the possibility that climbing this financial ladder we're all on toward a stable future can get chopped down from beneath you. Or maybe they did talk about it and I didn't pay attention. You hear about having to pivot, change course, watch for falling birdhouses, plan for curveballs, etc., but keep climbing, keep reaching for freedom at 55
And I realize there's a host of insurance products to protect oneself, but in my own case, I never qualified for a single one my entire adult life due to pre-existing health conditions. The only thing that was really in place to protect me during these last four years were tax sheltered savings in RSPs and TFSA that were intended for retirement
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I'm another one in the camp of 'not sure if I have saved enough'. I've been saving for many years and have built up a nice nest egg, it just doesn't seem like enough though when I look at things. Housing prices have escalated so quickly in the past year or two it's probably pushed out of the market we were hoping for in retirement, I doubt the sale of our house now would get us into what we were hoping to, and there's not enough saved to make up the difference and also fund retirement. Hoping for another 5-6 years of work but it's been touch and go the past 6 so nothing is guaranteed. Normally one would make hay while the sun shines but it's been a rough 7 years at work which has not allowed us to put any extra money away other than our regular savings. My wife's job probably disappears in 3 years when the business she works at will close, that's another hit to absorb in the retirement funding.
I'm probably still okay, it just doesn't seem like there's enough in the retirement kitty at first glance.
This 2022 Retirement Update Guide came up from JPMorgan Bank today, so I thought it was somewhat relevant to this thread. Even though it is aimed at the Americans, the points are relevant. In essence, people are expected to live longer and spending is expected to be quite a bit higher due to inflation, which means investing in only income stocks/bonds will not be enough. Also, an interesting observation about spending trend for people being highest in mid-fifties, then slowing down through 60s and 70s and then going sharply up in 80s, because of expensive health care and residence. This is believable. A family in their 80s we know, had to move to a retirement place here in Calgary and pay close to $10,000 per month in combined living costs. It is on a nicer side and they can afford it, but still, very expensive.
NSFW!
Quote:
J.P. Morgan Asset Management today released the 10th edition of its annual Guide to Retirement, analyzing the most significant issues impacting retirement to help investors make informed decisions and take positive actions to achieve a comfortable retirement. https://mma.prnewswire.com/media/153...PM_AM_Logo.jpg
"Retirement investors and advisors are grappling with a range of challenging issues, from an evolving inflation picture, to an increase in forecasted spending needs in retirement, and ongoing questions around Social Security," said Katherine Roy, Chief Retirement Strategist, J.P. Morgan Asset Management. "The 2022 Guide to Retirement has been designed to help advisors tackle the most pressing retirement challenges and provide strategies to help drive stronger retirement outcomes for clients."
Below is an overview of five key retirement themes featured in the 2022 Guide to Retirement:
1. Plan for an even longer life (and how to do it well)
-- Average life expectancy continues to increase and investors need to plan on the probability of living much longer - perhaps 35 years in retirement - particularly for non-smokers who are in excellent health.
-- Aging successfully is a key priority and individuals should focus on the 'PUSHES' in retirement.
-- Investing a portion of your portfolio for growth is important to maintain your purchasing power over time, particularly in an inflationary environment.
2. Most Americans are spending more...then less...then more
-- Income replacement needs have risen across the income spectrum and now ranges from 72-98%.
-- For households with estimated investable wealth of $1m - $3m, average spending is highest around age 50 - 55, declines until about age 80 when it begins to rise again.
-- Those at older ages tend to spend less on all categories but health care and charitable contributions.
3. Retirement savings "checkpoints" should be assessed from an early age
-- Too few Americans have calculated what it will take to be able to retire at their current lifestyle.
-- Retirement checkpoint calculations can help investors to quickly gauge whether they are "on track" to afford their current lifestyle for 35 years in retirement based on their current age and annual household income.
4. Keep inflation in perspective when planning for retirement
-- When planning for retirement, it's critical to take a long-term view, including planning for health care costs separately.
-- For example, older households purchase more health care, but less transportation than households age 35-44, making them less vulnerable to the volatile energy category than younger households. Conversely, health care costs grew about half as fast as the long term average in 2021.
5. Stable vs. variable is the new "discretionary vs. non-discretionary"
-- Aligning retirement income and assets based on how they will be used to support an individual's retirement lifestyle is one way to ensure a higher degree of confidence through retirement.
-- Known as "guarantee the floor," our analysis shows how stable spending can be aligned with relatively safe or guaranteed funding sources, while variable spending can be covered by retirement income solutions and may require a cash reserve to be available through the year.
__________________
"An idea is always a generalization, and generalization is a property of thinking. To generalize means to think." Georg Hegel
“To generalize is to be an idiot.” William Blake
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Had a single income family until I got laid off earlier this year... had managed to create a decent emergency fund the last few years plus a little severance plus a lot of cutting back plus CERB/EI have sure helped us stretch things. I recognize we're fortunate compared to so so many. Prior to the layoff was on track for decent savings but of course since then nada. Investments as of March 23rd were horrifying however we stayed the course and have since rebounded. Thankfully had already saved enough RESP for kidlets so when eldest starts Uni next year they won't be affected.
This time off work, during which I did have some fun, definitely taught me that I need to have enough F.U. money sooner rather than later so I need to do better with savings and investment strategies. Would LOVE to target Freedom55 but unless some miracle happens rather unlikely.
OK here are a couple of websites which can really help EVERYONE get a better handle on their retirement journey. Yes there are some assumptions made, but it gets you into the ballpark at least:
Simplest one: https://investmentcalculator.io/?ref...veincomeearner
Best one (more detailed) https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/
On this latter link, read through the "stuff"... it's good and worthy of your time IMO. Underneath that there are additional calculators and ways to look at life variables and run simulations on those. Don't forget to include funds for, lets' say, CPP, OAS, inheritance, additional medical, etc... You can play with years invested, stock/bond mix, how much variability you have yearly in your budget, etc...
Anyways enjoy the rabbit hole...
From my post here a while back… check out some of the links above.
The last 2 years with underemployment certainly didn’t help that much… thankfully I’d saved decently prior and between having an emergency fund and pivoting conservative investments into aggressive I managed to do decently.
For those who say they’ll save hard core “later”… the world changes as do your earnings options. Better to dig deeper and save sooner than play catch-up later. This is my 3rd?? round with sudden world issues and markets affecting earnings AND investments. (2007, 2015, 2020’ish). 2008 I screwed up and made poor investment decisions (but learned), and applied those learnings to 2016 and more recently.
So yeah… live a little now but don’t blow all your earnings especially on an endless stream of trivial crap from Amazon, drink, material goods, and keeping up with the buddy’s.
I think I am. dual income, no kids right now, no debt outside of a mortgage, putting +-50% of income away. Dont really have any expensive hobbies outside of PC gaming and cycling and I have been trying to get more and more frugal the older I get. I plan on retiring pretty early(in my 40s hopefully) and have no aspirations for a snowbird second home or anything like that. Pretty much just waiting for passive income to be able to replace our working incomes and just chill at home and ride bikes, play guitar and video games all day instead of working. I found mrmoneymoustache's blog a few years ago and it's had an incredibly transformative effect on my finances, and I've noticed zero impact on my quality of life. WHen we have kids the plan might change, but right now things are looking pretty good
Since this post I got laid off, spent a year unemployed learning a new skill, am now in a tangential field I enjoy much more and has a higher ceiling for pay. We decided that we are not going to have kids. House will be paid off in 4 years and by then we might be able to retire by age 39-40. Our yearly expenses outside of our mortgage in each of the last 2 years has been around 18k. We were planning on retiring at 1mil in investments (4% rule would match our current yearly expenses) , but that figure is actually pretty excessive based on our spending habits so we can probably retire as soon as the house is paid off
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I'm another one in the camp of 'not sure if I have saved enough'. I've been saving for many years and have built up a nice nest egg, it just doesn't seem like enough though when I look at things. Housing prices have escalated so quickly in the past year or two it's probably pushed out of the market we were hoping for in retirement, I doubt the sale of our house now would get us into what we were hoping to, and there's not enough saved to make up the difference and also fund retirement. Hoping for another 5-6 years of work but it's been touch and go the past 6 so nothing is guaranteed. Normally one would make hay while the sun shines but it's been a rough 7 years at work which has not allowed us to put any extra money away other than our regular savings. My wife's job probably disappears in 3 years when the business she works at will close, that's another hit to absorb in the retirement funding.
I'm probably still okay, it just doesn't seem like there's enough in the retirement kitty at first glance.
Honestly, go talk with an advisor. When I say that, I don't mean someone with that title at the local bank branch, but someone with the designations and education to help put together a financial plan. (A CFP, Certified Financial Planner). Advisors who have been in business for a long time end up helping a lot of people retire, and as a result they've seen a lot of scenarios. I'd want to find out how things look when you are still working and can deal with it (to some extent) as opposed to when retirement is imminent.
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This 2022 Retirement Update Guide came up from JPMorgan Bank today, so I thought it was somewhat relevant to this thread. Even though it is aimed at the Americans, the points are relevant. In essence, people are expected to live longer and spending is expected to be quite a bit higher due to inflation, which means investing in only income stocks/bonds will not be enough. Also, an interesting observation about spending trend for people being highest in mid-fifties, then slowing down through 60s and 70s and then going sharply up in 80s, because of expensive health care and residence. This is believable. A family in their 80s we know, had to move to a retirement place here in Calgary and pay close to $10,000 per month in combined living costs. It is on a nicer side and they can afford it, but still, very expensive.
This must be more than a "retirement place" though. I've been dealing with this on the personal front (for a family member) and we're nowhere those costs.
Honestly, go talk with an advisor. When I say that, I don't mean someone with that title at the local bank branch, but someone with the designations and education to help put together a financial plan. (A CFP, Certified Financial Planner). Advisors who have been in business for a long time end up helping a lot of people retire, and as a result they've seen a lot of scenarios. I'd want to find out how things look when you are still working and can deal with it (to some extent) as opposed to when retirement is imminent.
Thanks Slava, that's good advice. All the numbers and calculators we see say we are okay but I still have doubts. Part of it is probably due to the pessimist in me, I don't have faith in government being there long term (ie when I need them), and I always see the worst case in terms of investment so am probably underestimating my actual situation.
This 2022 Retirement Update Guide came up from JPMorgan Bank today, so I thought it was somewhat relevant to this thread. Even though it is aimed at the Americans, the points are relevant. In essence, people are expected to live longer and spending is expected to be quite a bit higher due to inflation, which means investing in only income stocks/bonds will not be enough. Also, an interesting observation about spending trend for people being highest in mid-fifties, then slowing down through 60s and 70s and then going sharply up in 80s, because of expensive health care and residence. This is believable. A family in their 80s we know, had to move to a retirement place here in Calgary and pay close to $10,000 per month in combined living costs. It is on a nicer side and they can afford it, but still, very expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slava
This must be more than a "retirement place" though. I've been dealing with this on the personal front (for a family member) and we're nowhere those costs.
My wife's grandmother has to move out of the place she was in for the same reason. She's in her 90's now with no income other than OAS etc. Her bill for 2021 was $56 000 IIRC with much of that subsidized by the taxpayer but she still could not afford her portion. At an extended care place the costs add up in a hurry. Rent, meals, medical care, staffing 24/7, entertainment, transportation etc.
This 2022 Retirement Update Guide came up from JPMorgan Bank today, so I thought it was somewhat relevant to this thread. Even though it is aimed at the Americans, the points are relevant. In essence, people are expected to live longer and spending is expected to be quite a bit higher due to inflation, which means investing in only income stocks/bonds will not be enough. Also, an interesting observation about spending trend for people being highest in mid-fifties, then slowing down through 60s and 70s and then going sharply up in 80s, because of expensive health care and residence. This is believable. A family in their 80s we know, had to move to a retirement place here in Calgary and pay close to $10,000 per month in combined living costs. It is on a nicer side and they can afford it, but still, very expensive.
I took over my parents’ finances recently due to dementia, and it has given me insight into retirement spending and finances. In their late 70s with their house long paid off and driving a reliable used car, they really didn’t spend much. Two people with full CPP and OAS is a decent base income. Add in another $1k a month each in RIFFs, and a modest defined benefit pension (<$1K), and they were doing fine. Look at how much money a lot of people saved during the pandemic due to lifestyle changes - that’s kinda what being retired in your 70s is like.
Going into a seniors home is very expensive*, but you presumably have the equity from selling your home to fund it. The problem is when one person needs care and the other doesn’t, and you’re paying for two places.
* Nice ones are around $5k/mo for a single person, somewhat less per person if it’s a couple. This is for seniors/retirement homes with full meals, health care providers on-hand, etc. Care home spaces, which are allocated for medical necessity, are around $2k/mo
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Originally Posted by fotze
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My wife's grandmother has to move out of the place she was in for the same reason. She's in her 90's now with no income other than OAS etc. Her bill for 2021 was $56 000 IIRC with much of that subsidized by the taxpayer but she still could not afford her portion. At an extended care place the costs add up in a hurry. Rent, meals, medical care, staffing 24/7, entertainment, transportation etc.
Right, but a lot of those places are offering 24/7 care and that's a significant jump from a place to retire. I'm not an expert in those living situations, but someone I know is, and she recommended that when it's time for long-term care (like actual care for things like dementia) that you look at what the public system has to offer.
Prior to that, there are lodges that you can access that are subsidized and they have a fair amount of care along with some independence. In my search, I'd say that spending $10k a month in Calgary you're either layering on a bunch of care, or you're in a place like the Edward or Amica. Nothing wrong with that, but that's pretty clearly a personal decision at that point.
Somebody shoot me now if I'm working my ass off through the prime years of my life only to piss away the bulk of my savings limping my way through the last five years of my life wheeled in front of a tv in some common area of a ####ty retirement home after eating my cafeteria dinner.
As soon as dementia is on the horizon or I see in my relative's eyes I'm just a hassle to come visit and I'm not able to contribute anything but sitting in the corner at a family gathering, I'm tapping the fata out.
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I plan on retiring somewhere around 65, so another 30 years or so. Will I have enough money to retire? Tough to say, I'm on my own (and loving it), so I don't have the benefit of a second income to help pay for things. I'm investing regularly in my RRSP and TFSAs and doing some stock trading on the side for fun, but the mortgage will be a while yet for sure. I could also stand to put more into my investments, hopefully this year with my car paid off. Long term, I just want to live in my own townhouse in San Diego. Perhaps I'm in an inheritance somewhere that will help this dream, haha!
That said, if things get dicey and retirement isn't in my cards / the world is a totally different place in 30 years, I'll just spend half my money on traveling the world and having memorable experiences, give the other half to whatever family remains or make some donations to my fave charities, then do what Ozy suggested - one way ticket to Switzerland for a personal visit to a Sarco Pod (which I'm totally comfortable with as my last decision).
Somebody shoot me now if I'm working my ass off through the prime years of my life only to piss away the bulk of my savings limping my way through the last five years of my life wheeled in front of a tv in some common area of a ####ty retirement home after eating my cafeteria dinner.
As soon as dementia is on the horizon or I see in my relative's eyes I'm just a hassle to come visit and I'm not able to contribute anything but sitting in the corner at a family gathering, I'm tapping the fata out.
Yeah, I agree with you. At the same time, some of those places are actually pretty sweet (considering what they are). And if you're lucky enough to be there as a male, it's basically 1 guy to 8 ladies!
The fact that most men in my family don't get past 70 is a blessing in that none of my Uncles who died young, or my Dad spent a minute in assisted Living. So if my fate is to have my heart blow up while pushing the same lawnmower that's already 20 years old another 20 years from now because I'm the last stubborn grouch who refuses to let a robot do that type of crap...than I might be okay.
If I buck that trend and end up living past 70, than there really is no amount of money I can save to help me given current inflation.
__________________ "Some guys like old balls"
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Somebody shoot me now if I'm working my ass off through the prime years of my life only to piss away the bulk of my savings limping my way through the last five years of my life wheeled in front of a tv in some common area of a ####ty retirement home after eating my cafeteria dinner.
As soon as dementia is on the horizon or I see in my relative's eyes I'm just a hassle to come visit and I'm not able to contribute anything but sitting in the corner at a family gathering, I'm tapping the fata out.
A lot of people think this way (especially, men), but in reality, when THAT time comes, they don't think this way at all. Contrary to what we might think now, majority of old people do not want to die and "end it all on once". They hang on to life and actually do look forward to those bland cafeteria meals, same TV programs and window watching. It is hard to believe when you are young but it is true. What's more, even if you prepare a directive agreeing to an assisted suicide, it would only work if you are terminally ill and suffering tremendously. Dementia, Alzheimer, short-term memory loss and general frailty are not sufficient causes for pulling the plug legally.
Someone I know has been gathering materials and writing a book on memories of lonely old people in care facilities. She visits them, talks to them and records their life stories to preserve them, because they have no relatives or friends remaining or close. She told me that none of those who she has had a chance to speak to over the past decade wanted to die.
__________________
"An idea is always a generalization, and generalization is a property of thinking. To generalize means to think." Georg Hegel
“To generalize is to be an idiot.” William Blake
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A lot of people think this way (especially, men), but in reality, when THAT time comes, they don't think this way at all. Contrary to what we might think now, majority of old people do not want to die and "end it all on once". They hang on to life and actually do look forward to those bland cafeteria meals, same TV programs and window watching. It is hard to believe when you are young but it is true. What's more, even if you prepare a directive agreeing to an assisted suicide, it would only work if you are terminally ill and suffering tremendously. Dementia, Alzheimer, short-term memory loss and general frailty are not sufficient causes for pulling the plug legally.
Someone I know has been gathering materials and writing a book on memories of lonely old people in care facilities. She visits them, talks to them and records their life stories to preserve them, because they have no relatives or friends remaining or close. She told me that none of those who she has had a chance to speak to over the past decade wanted to die.
I wonder if survivorship bias comes into play here. The ones who would want to be dead instead of sitting in a rocking chair watching The Price is Right are probably dead.
