11-15-2013, 10:26 AM
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#21
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon
Well it appears nobody knew what they had or others would have dealt for him and a 2nd round pick for a back-up goalie is a pretty damn good return so they obviously knew not to toss him away for nothing.
Plus it wasn't like they were stuck with some bum as Nabokov was playing pretty well for them and would play well for the next couple of years as well.
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Yea, it's just weird that they had an elite goaltender as a third stringer and they didn't even know it. He wasn't even a project, he was elite right away.
I guess it just goes to show how difficult it is to judge goaltending talent.
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11-15-2013, 10:26 AM
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#22
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Scoring Winger
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This Toskala thing is news to me, as well.
I thought Sutter went after Kipper cause he knew him during his time there. Liked his work ethic.
He was behind Nabakov and Toskala at the time as they had a pretty good 1A/1B.
Meh, all semantics at this point... Happy we got him, and grateful he made the Flames competitive for as long as he did.
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11-15-2013, 10:30 AM
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#23
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lethbridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiggy_12
Am I the only one living under a rock and hearing this Toskala thing for the first time?
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I have heard variations of Sutter specifically wanting Toskala, Sutter saying either or and San Jose saying Toskala but Sutter saying no Kiprusoff.
I think that there is probably a little from column a and a little from column b.
What makes most sense is that both sides wanted Toskala because at the time he had shown more.
But it makes it easier for Sutter haters to say that he wanted Toskala but was "forced" to take Kipper so then he deserves no credit for that.
I think considering what Sutter was looking for, a short term replacement for Turek and then a likely back-up, he likely would have been fine with either if it came down to take guy x or we have no deal. Whether he was higher on Kipper or Toskala we may never know (and based on the two GM's involved that seems likely) but either way we got Kipper and that is really what matters.
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11-15-2013, 10:33 AM
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#24
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codynw
Yea, it's just weird that they had an elite goaltender as a third stringer and they didn't even know it. He wasn't even a project, he was elite right away.
I guess it just goes to show how difficult it is to judge goaltending talent.
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I think David Marcoux deserves a lot of credit. While Kipper was great right away for us, he would still have the odd terrible game... but he would come back the next game with a shutout or 1 goal performance. For whatever reason, Marcoux seemed to know how to reach him. I think in San Jose, they knew he had skill, but they were seeing too many of the terrible games and they couldn't harness him.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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11-15-2013, 10:50 AM
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#25
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
I think David Marcoux deserves a lot of credit. While Kipper was great right away for us, he would still have the odd terrible game... but he would come back the next game with a shutout or 1 goal performance. For whatever reason, Marcoux seemed to know how to reach him. I think in San Jose, they knew he had skill, but they were seeing too many of the terrible games and they couldn't harness him.
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I think Marcoux was the one that got him watching the replays after goals. He'd have his goalies watch the replay, see how the goal went in and adjust. To this day Kipper was the only goalie that I'd see do it. Most put their head down and take a drink. Kipper would get up lean back on the crossbar and see how it beat him... gave him that laid back look.
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11-15-2013, 11:01 AM
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#26
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Scoring Winger
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Kipper was surprised Sutter traded for him as he said he thought Sutter hated him.
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11-15-2013, 11:07 AM
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#27
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Royal Oak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoforever
Kipper was surprised Sutter traded for him as he said he thought Sutter hated him.
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Source?
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11-15-2013, 11:13 AM
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#28
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuz
Source?
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He said it in an interview not too long ago. He was smiling a the time, mentioned he didn't get much of a chance with Sharks.
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11-15-2013, 11:20 AM
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#29
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the cut, in the cut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiggy_12
Am I the only one living under a rock and hearing this Toskala thing for the first time?
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its ok, some of us don't live and die by CP.
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11-15-2013, 11:53 AM
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#30
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
I think David Marcoux deserves a lot of credit. While Kipper was great right away for us, he would still have the odd terrible game... but he would come back the next game with a shutout or 1 goal performance. For whatever reason, Marcoux seemed to know how to reach him. I think in San Jose, they knew he had skill, but they were seeing too many of the terrible games and they couldn't harness him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TjRhythmic
I think Marcoux was the one that got him watching the replays after goals. He'd have his goalies watch the replay, see how the goal went in and adjust. To this day Kipper was the only goalie that I'd see do it. Most put their head down and take a drink. Kipper would get up lean back on the crossbar and see how it beat him... gave him that laid back look.
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In addition to his mental game, Marcoux deserves a lot of credit for transforming Kipper's physical game from the "standup" style taught by Warren Strelow in SJ to the hybrid/butterfly style he used with the Flames. Good article here: http://ingoalmag.com/news/kiprusoff-...for-milestone/
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11-15-2013, 12:11 PM
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#31
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Market Mall Food Court
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Too bad Marcoux couldn't coach another single one of our backups to be AHL level. I think he got lucky with Kipper.
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11-15-2013, 12:15 PM
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#32
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Franchise Player
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I wonder if the Sharks would have won a Cup with Kiprusoff in net. Nabokov was a solid goalie too, but not at Kipper's level (especially come playoff time).
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11-15-2013, 12:20 PM
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#33
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Self-Retirement
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I remember the day of the trade thinking, "Oh great, another no-name useless goalie." Was I wrong.
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11-15-2013, 12:33 PM
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#34
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normtwofinger
I remember the day of the trade thinking, "Oh great, another no-name useless goalie." Was I wrong.
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Its ok, everyone takes that attitude with most transactions, on this team or another, because most of the time its right
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio
I am so fulfilled with many things in my life that it would be pathetic to seek schadenfreude over something as silly as a sports game.
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11-15-2013, 12:43 PM
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#35
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ontario
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For those wondering how San Jose could not know they had an elite goalie, don't forget they gave him a chance the previous season and he was bad.
5 wins, 14 losses, a 3.25 GAA, and an abysmal .879 save percentage.
From their point of view it was a no-brainer.
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11-15-2013, 12:51 PM
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#36
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: STH since 2002
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Depressing realizing we move from the greatness of Kipper to Berra and Ramo. Kiprusoff is Fin for Hockey God.
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11-15-2013, 03:27 PM
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#37
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The frozen surface of a fireball
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Bring back Brathwaite
__________________
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon
dear god is he 14?
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11-15-2013, 04:00 PM
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#38
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First Line Centre
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I never know what to make of rumours behind trades that could have been. I think lots could have been total BS. I remember the Spezza for phaneuf + 1st round pick rumor the year before sutter traded him. Hard to believe he would have turned that down... But I guess phaneuf was still getting Norris trophy consideration back then and Spezza was at his lowest performance of his career.
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11-15-2013, 08:56 PM
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#39
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertuzzied
But but but but but Brent Krahn is from Calgary and the draft was being held in Calgary and he played for the Calgary Hitmen.....
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But wait a sec...we now have the two best goalies that weren't playing in the NHL last season... 
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11-15-2013, 11:01 PM
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#40
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Golden
Depressing realizing we move from the greatness of Kipper to Berra and Ramo. Kiprusoff is Fin for Hockey God.
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the Sad part is the Flames only got past the first round one time with his greatness...what a waste
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