Canada plans to buy NEW Fighter Jets - F-35 reported chosen

[Mightyfire89]

Yeah, Leopard IIs are still among the very best tanks in the world.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Leopards have the same gun as the M1A1, or actually, it is the other way around, the M1A1 uses the German Rheinmetall gun of the Leopard II...the Leopard just doesn't have the jet engine of the M1 but the diesel engine is probably more efficient on fuel.

The M1A1 is overall a superior tank, I don't think there's anything out there that really touches it, especially in terms of speed, fire control and armor technology. But its unlikely that we'll be exchanging shots with the Yanks anytime soon.

[Azure]

So, if this gets approved, what is next on the list?

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The M1A1 is overall a superior tank, I don't think there's anything out there that really touches it, especially in terms of speed, fire control and armor technology. But its unlikely that we'll be exchanging shots with the Yanks anytime soon.

I'd take the Leopard IIs over an M1A1. That thing is a beast, and can be fitted with an even more powerful gun. You could make arguments for the M1, too, but I think it's way closer, either way.

[pylon]

This is awesome news. I heard at one point they were considering the Dassault Rafale. Don't get me wrong the, Rafale is a beautiful jet, I just don't think it matches up with the JSF.....and its, you know....French.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Azure

So, if this gets approved, what is next on the list?

Upgraded self propelled artillary, upgrades or replacements for our armored vehicles. Coastal patrol boats, Command and Control Naval Destroyers. Updated communications technology.

The government has done a terrific job in a short period of time in rebuilding our capability, but there's still a lot of work to do to keep the military from falling into a crisis point again. It was only 5 years ago that we were talking about a severe rust out and end of any kind of Canadian Forces capability.

Hopefully we never neglect the forces again, and I'm not just blaming the Liberals here, previous Conservative governments caused just as much in the way of destruction.

[Codes]

I guess I should have done better research on the Leopard IIs. I knew they were excellent tanks, but I had no idea they were that good.

They had one at the Stampede Parade this year, and it was absolutely wicked seeing that beast ripping around. The pilot was doing donuts, and the gunner at one point swiveled the turret towards a police officer, and aimed the main cannon right at him. It was hilarious, but I imagine it was pretty intimidating for that guy.

Was my favourite part of the parade.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Codes

I guess I should have done better research on the Leopard IIs. I knew they were excellent tanks, but I had no idea they were that good.

They had one at the Stampede Parade this year, and it was absolutely wicked seeing that beast ripping around. The pilot was doing donuts, and the gunner at one point swiveled the turret towards a police officer, and aimed the main cannon right at him. It was hilarious, but I imagine it was pretty intimidating for that guy.

Was my favourite part of the parade.

The tank turned out of the parade before it got to me. Must have been too heavy for a bridge or something.

[Codes]

That's unfortunate. There were the two tanks, and then a LAV III. Did it go past you?

They had another Leopard II on the stampede grounds, along with several other vehicles and displays. Did you manage to catch it there? I was a tad disappointed that they didn't have the Griffon helicopter in the display this year.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Codes

That's unfortunate. There were the two tanks, and then a LAV III. Did it go past you?

They had another Leopard II on the stampede grounds, along with several other vehicles and displays. Did you manage to catch it there? I was a tad disappointed that they didn't have the Griffon helicopter in the display this year.

Missed both tanks and the LAV III, guess it's not weight then that accounts for their detour. Also have not been to the military part of the Stampede, but I'm not a big military hardware buff, so it's not that big a deal. But having the barrel of a tank pointed at me would make a sweet 3D photo.

[burn_this_city]

BUMP

Ignatief claims he'll cancel the jet purchase.

http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/201...hter-jets.html

Deja vu anyone?

[Pinner]

Jets and helicopters = about $30,000,000,000

Billion's that we don't have, I knew this was coming up.

Fraser's audit said the cost of purchasing and servicing 28 CH-148 Cyclone maritime helicopters and 15 CH-147 cargo-styled Chinooks has reached $11 billion — more than twice the initial $5 billion estimates defence officials provided to cabinet, excluding service and maintenance costs. And their delivery is at least half a decade behind schedule, she said.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/tro...#ixzz13bEPLWRO

[CaptainCrunch]

Its typical of the Liberal's to go to war with their own military.

But once again Ignatief is absolutely ######ed on this in my opinion.

He bitches about the Helicopter purchases when it was his own party that caused this freaking mess in the first place. Because of the stupidty of Chretien and the politics of the whole thing we were stuck with helicopters that required multiple hours of maintenance for every hour of flight, when they weren't failing to start up or even fly.

Our last purchase was the F-18, which back in the late 70's and early 80's would have been considered the Cadillac of fighter aircraft. 30 years later they're developing microfractures and an end of life in terms of avionic upgrade capabilities and their abilities to operate properly. We invest in the development of the F-35 and gain some nice business benefits from it, its the only 5th generation fighter plane thats available and its our first real proper airforce upgrade in nearly a generation. And the a$$ wants to cancel it.

I guess it stands to reason, the Liberal Party concentrated their efforts on destroying our armed forces, and then committed them to a war with improper equipment that actually caused loss of life in Afghanistan.

If we're going to maintain a small airforce which is what we have, then its better to buy high quality then spend money on something thats going to be obsolete quicker.

At least there's a side benefit economically for purchasing this jet, in terms of some jobs and money going to Canadian industries.

I guess that the cynic in me gets pissed off about the fact that the Liberals would have formed 40 committees to purchase a jet and waited another 20 years until the F-18's were sitting in a rust yard.

Ignatieff might be a smart guy, but this is an absolutely stupid battle to fight.

while I try to keep an open mind in elections (Hey I voted for our current mayor) I can't support a guy like Ignatieff. Especially now.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Pinner

Jets and helicopters = about $30,000,000,000

Billion's that we don't have, I knew this was coming up.

Thanks to Jean Cretien we've been flying the same helicopters since 1963. Its completely his governments fault our cost to replace the Sea Kings has skyrocketed.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Pinner

Jets and helicopters = about $30,000,000,000

Billion's that we don't have, I knew this was coming up.

Unfortunatley years of neglect by the Canadian Government forces the issues. Its either prevent the rust out of our military or not.

The helicopter thing is all on the Liberal's its interesting that they're crying about a cost that they had a big part in creating.

Our airforce needs whole sale replacement and if you're going to hang onto fighters for 30 years, then you best bet that it will cost you to replace them.

Just wait because the Frigate midlife refurbishment and replacement of our command and control and supply ships is coming.

[Pinner]

Last time they canceled the order it cost 500 million

[DropIt]

I came in to make a top gun joke. But I don't even know what the hell I'm reading

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Pinner

Last time they canceled the order it cost 500 million

If you looked at total cost for the cancellation and not just the penalty incurred, it cost us billions of dollars.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

If you looked at total cost for the cancellation and not just the penalty incurred, it cost us billions of dollars.

And we were stuck for another couple of decades with hideously dangerous helipcopters where the average pilot updated his last will and testiment before spinning up the engine.

This reminds me of the whole Iltis jeep fiasco where Chretien pushed through their purchase because his boy was a mover and shaker at Bombardier and we got the crap gouged out of us for one of the most useless military vehicles ever created.

I don't mind some of the Liberal Policies, but their handling of the military pisses me off.

[CaptainCrunch]

I look at the typical fear mongering headline.

We're spending 30 billion dollars on these purchases . . . for shame.

Yeah but we're going to end up using them for 30 to 40 years dumbass.